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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Have You experienced racism at work?

160 replies

WhenWhatWhere · 12/07/2020 18:52

Just wondering how bad this issue of racism in the workplace is.

We all know that there are not enough black, asian and minority ethnic people in board level positions in the work place.

However, I am wondering what sort of racism, be it visible or invisible have you faced at work.

I know this is AIBU, so myAIBU is that there Is more racism in the workplace than we think there is.

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 13/07/2020 00:34

Yes. Its not always overt though. I've also had it reported to me by others about senior managers.

One of the worse was a comment that if you see a black man late at night, you just know they'll mug you, so you should cross to the other side of the road.

afromom · 13/07/2020 00:36

Exh repeatedly experienced very overt racism in one of his jobs. He was the only black man in a small West Country town, factory setting. They made flavours for food (one was for kfc). He was continually told that he must love kfc because he's black, asked if he could get them weed, asked where he was from and had his accent taken the piss out of.

The manager passed him over for numerous promotions, despite regularly telling him he was the hardest worker and over qualified for his entry level role. Younger men, fresh out of school, would come in and be promoted over him in a few months and he never moved from the bottom of the rung, but he was always asked to do all the overtime as he was the only one always willing to go in and produced the highest work rate.

The icing on the cake and when he finally left was when he travelled to see his family back in west Africa. On returning he felt unwell and when he called in sick to let them know, he had a call from HR saying - I kid you not - 'next time you go to one of those uncivilised countries, you need to let us know first'
He handed in his notice immediately and never returned.

I still feel guilty that I didn't push him to take them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal, but he was so upset about it all he just wanted to walk away.

He's never got over that experience and ultimately led to him setting up his own business and moving back to west Africa - away from DS and I, ending our marriage. He does still see DS and stays in regular contact, we are on friendly terms and get along well still. He just couldn't face the racism anymore- this wasn't the first job he'd experienced it, but was by far the worst and most traumatising.

The sad thing is, now that DS is a teenager, I can start to see the racism creeping in for him too through people at school.

pinkcattydude · 13/07/2020 00:54

Honest question here. A black colleague said to me and my also white manager when sorting through holidays ‘you people don’t do the family thing, you all go off and don’t meet up with each other, where as we are always together’. Where does that fit? I hate sweeping statements anyway as we are all individuals or so I thought.

GrumpyHoonMain · 13/07/2020 00:57

@pinkcattydude

Honest question here. A black colleague said to me and my also white manager when sorting through holidays ‘you people don’t do the family thing, you all go off and don’t meet up with each other, where as we are always together’. Where does that fit? I hate sweeping statements anyway as we are all individuals or so I thought.
You could tryreporting it. But be warned that if your black colleague’s experiences have been anything like mine he probably has loads of dirt about comments you and your manager may have made without even realising it.
user1456324865563 · 13/07/2020 00:58

Not wishing to derail, but do our schools actually teach children what systemic/institutional racism is now? And if not, why not?

Because when I was at school we were only taught that racism equals racist verbal/physical abuse or blatant and direct policies like segregation. We didn't learn about indirect discrimination, systemic issues, or anything more subtle. If your mental image of what it means to be racist is highly simplistic, it's harder to absorb somebody telling you that something that superficially is different is actually the same. As with anything, if you've not experienced something and not been taught about it, why would you understand it?

I readily admit I didn't understand what it meant when The Met was first described as institutionally racist; I won't be the only one (just look at how many coppers still start crying "that's not true, I'm not a racist" when the issue is raised now).

It does not make it acceptable however I can understand why people struggle to comprehend that their organisation can be racist even if it is not populated by "racists" - which often seems to be the instinctive response when racism is pointed out.

If we understand problems we can address them, so that is not intended as an excuse just a tool to effect change. And these are personal reflections.

birthdaybelle · 13/07/2020 01:05

Many many times. I'm fairly senior in HR. Think - managers visibly wincing when presented with a CV that had a "funny name" at the top. Comments like "I've already got my black quota". "They can be like that" regarding a black guy raising a (perfectly valid) unfair dismissal claim.
And this was a seamingjy progressive organisation, female CEO loads of charitable work in one African country.
Also in other roles when I was younger I was on the recruiting side and was told by several clients that they wanted "young slim white girls" only. This was 2005 ish so not dark ages

GrumpyHoonMain · 13/07/2020 01:06

@user1456324865563

Not wishing to derail, but do our schools actually teach children what systemic/institutional racism is now? And if not, why not?

Because when I was at school we were only taught that racism equals racist verbal/physical abuse or blatant and direct policies like segregation. We didn't learn about indirect discrimination, systemic issues, or anything more subtle. If your mental image of what it means to be racist is highly simplistic, it's harder to absorb somebody telling you that something that superficially is different is actually the same. As with anything, if you've not experienced something and not been taught about it, why would you understand it?

I readily admit I didn't understand what it meant when The Met was first described as institutionally racist; I won't be the only one (just look at how many coppers still start crying "that's not true, I'm not a racist" when the issue is raised now).

It does not make it acceptable however I can understand why people struggle to comprehend that their organisation can be racist even if it is not populated by "racists" - which often seems to be the instinctive response when racism is pointed out.

If we understand problems we can address them, so that is not intended as an excuse just a tool to effect change. And these are personal reflections.

Yes we learned about systemic / institutional racism. But it didn’t really do much good in our school as there were only a handful of white kids permanently enrolled in the school . Due to systemic racism our local council put almost all the families of colour (including gypsies) who qualified for social housing onto one estate. While all the white (mainly Irish) families lived in the posher estate next to us - their school always had more money to do fancy trips / participate in sports competitions than ours did.

Having said that houses in both estates are very much owned by people of colour now as the original residents (due to their parents being refugees and immigrants) had more of a work hard at school-get a job-buy a house mentality.

user1456324865563 · 13/07/2020 01:14

This is depressing.

CountFosco · 13/07/2020 06:09

I'm white but have worked for several non-white bosses so have seen them experience racism in the workplace. Lots of microaggressions, most recent one was a customer asking 'so where are you from really?' to my boss who was the only person in the room who was born in England (the rest of us were all white but from all over Europe).

Most blatant example was over 10 years ago, I was talking to a colleague and my boss walked past the window and waved and was fooling about a bit and my colleague made an offensive and racist comment about my bosses appearance. It came out of nowhere (to me), I'd never heard this colleague say racist things before and had no idea that would be his insult of choice.

That boss said whenever we had customers who came from the same continent as his ancestors he and the two other managers from the same ethnicity would be dragged in and presented to the customers in a 'look, we employ brown people' way whether or not their area of expertise was relevant.

RedRumTheHorse · 13/07/2020 06:49

@afromum he would have had a race discrimination case. They would have either fought it tooth and nail all the way, or fought then rolled over when they realised they would lose. My first employer did the latter as they victimised me in the process so my initial claim didn't matter.

afromom · 13/07/2020 07:22

Redrum I don't think he had any energy left to fight to be honest. Plus he had the feeling hanging over him that if he 'played the race card' it would stick with him forever in other jobs. Which to be frank is even more horrifying that people feel they can't stand up for themselves when being racially abused for fear people will see them as a potential problem in the future.

It really opened my eyes to how awful it can be and how obvious my own white privilege is.

Fruitbatdancer · 13/07/2020 07:30

I work in IT, I’ve fired someone for racism, I’ve made sure a customer let a racist go during a restructure, and just last month gave a written warning to someone in my team for a racist comment.
I don’t want a medalC I just want you to know some senior people in organisations are doing the right thing. I will not tolerate discrimination of any kind.
I feel very strongly about it.

BasedInDublin · 13/07/2020 08:32

As an English person working in Ireland, yes I've encountered it from time to time (however, given the English history in Ireland I am not surprised). To be honest most often it has been in casual, jokey format.

In the course of my work career I've observed enough to think that it really is still an issue today.

whattimeisitrightnow · 13/07/2020 09:05

Honest question here. A black colleague said to me and my also white manager when sorting through holidays ‘you people don’t do the family thing, you all go off and don’t meet up with each other, where as we are always together’. Where does that fit? I hate sweeping statements anyway as we are all individuals or so I thought.
Goodness, that must have been truly devastating. Really an example of systemic workplace racism.
Hmm

EmbarrassedUser · 13/07/2020 09:15

No

FeedMeSantiago · 13/07/2020 09:46

I once worked with a lady who was Roma and she experienced some shocking racism. Lots of 'jokes' about whether she pays tax, or 'the wheels on your house go round and round' being sung.

I have worked with BAME colleagues and been shocked at how many people refuse to even attempt to learn their names, or ask if they can call them something 'nice and English' instead. I have also seen this with Welsh, Irish and Scottish names - basically anything which isn't 'English'.

I worked in recruitment 10 years ago and was horrified by some of the racism, disablism and sexism I witnessed. One client told my Irish colleague who had an Irish name not to send them Irish candidates 'they just don't fit in with us culturally and they have silly unpronouncable names'. Another told my colleague of Indian origin they wanted British candidates only 'especially not Indians'.

The company did nothing to prevent this and actively weeded out female/disabled/BAME candidates for clients as requested.

I left as soon as I could, awful awful place.

AdventureCode · 13/07/2020 09:53

I went for a promotion for the next step up, Think area sales manager, up from my position of local office sales manager. My sales meant my office was always in the black under me year after year, and for the last 3 years my office had also increased 30% year on year, which is completely unheard of, especially in the current climate, and I had been sent internal awards, I've kept hold of my staff etc, so I'm very good at my job. Anyway a vacancy meant there was a spot, the outgoing manager recommended I apply saying I was the best they'd seen for years etc, so I did.
The first interview was two white people interviewing me, my company is 98/9% white so this is normal, there is only one other person of colour on my area. One of the interviewers is my line manager two steps above me and another the sales manager for another area that previously held my role. Oh my god I felt like I was on a tv show. She was so incredibly rude, she couldn't believe I'd made the sales in her former role, I must be dodgy, told me she couldn't be bothered to read my cv so to explain in great depth my history, she wants to hear it from me, general put downs about how if she couldn't do it she doesn't believe it's down to me etc. I actually felt she really hated me, despite having never met me before. Answered all the questions put to me whilst feeling the most unwelcome I've ever felt, like I was defending myself for my record of achievement. She actually looked angry I could answer the questions.
After the interview I was taken aside and apologised to by my line manager and was told she wouldn't be there in the next stage.

In the next and final stage I was interviewed by 3 white men of middle age at an assessment centre. It was down between me a black women and an Asian man from the next area over for the job. He was also good at his job also one of very few in our company who managed to keep his office in the black but didn't have my record of high achievement so he said he didn't expect to get the role over me.
Anyway we had written assessments, role play and 2 presentations to give to these 3 assessors over the day and we could chat in-between the different tasks.
The final task was role play, I had to sack or discipline someone who was underperforming/not responding to training and generally was a liability and at the end of their employment. I was told that the "employee actor" would act out and disagree with this. So to handle the situation as best as possible. I should state this would be an actor and the other two assessors would watch and mark me on this. So I did and it went remarkable well, the actor (other assessor) agreed with my points on the steps we'd taken in our pretend scenario, I asked the actor their thoughts, went through what happened, our end, their actions and agreed to terminate their role. All so simple it went really well, so I thought.
At the end of the day I was speaking to the other person I was against, the other persons experience was that the actor shouted pushed a chair over and stormed out to his responses so I had felt I had done at least well especially in this part.
3days later I get the phone call, that I didn't get the role but that he would come down personally to talk through the day with me, as he said I deserved that at least considering my track record in the company. So he does a couple of weeks later, he goes through the assessment day, how everything was fantastic especially my presentation the best he'd ever seen in an interview I had good thoughts for the future etc, written part was excellent, no faults to pick up. We then get to the actor part. They felt I was too aggressive to the actor in their sacking, that I was perhaps mean in my handling. I asked him to give examples as I was told the actor would push back against everything and would play up to being dismissed, my job was to dismiss them as best I can as they asked me to do, and that it all went calmly with the actor agreeing the role isn't working for them anymore etc. And I was able to do that with no push back or scene created. But he just said it came across as aggressive of me. He said he appreciated my record is the best in the country but unfortunately, the last part of the assessing day meant he couldn't offer me the role and that he was sorry. I was shocked because he knew that is not how the actor part of the day went at all, but he wouldn't hear it. The other Asian guy didn't get it either. The role went to a white male middle aged outside applicant with no experience in our area after readvertising the role who lasted 6 months then quit. Then another outside white middle aged male applicant, no experience in our sector, sacked for under performance. We're now on our third outside middle aged white male applicant with even more areas underperforming more so than they did previously, so likely to be sacked, as they again don't have experience in our sector.
I don't know what to say other than, I'm the best performing in my company for my role, applying for the next step up. I have met resistance almost every step of the way. And I wrote this just so people can hopefully see that what I have experienced, in lack of promotion isn't obviously racist but I do perceive it to be however it's not tangible enough to prove. So when you don't see black faces in higher positions just know it's not for want of trying, it's the push back you get every single step of the way.

pinkcattydude · 13/07/2020 09:59

I wasn’t bothered but the manager was the one that suggested it was actually a racist comment. The colleague is a good friend. Hence asking the question. But thanks for picking up the comment purely to judge.

whattimeisitrightnow · 13/07/2020 10:04

But surely asking the question suggests that you yourself considered that it could be racist, otherwise you would’ve said “No, manager, that’s not racist” (or thought it, at least) rather than posting on here. I don’t understand how you can read through some of these really upsetting experiences and then feel the need to ask that - ask someone in real life if you have to. This isn’t the place. It just comes across as wanting to detract from real experiences of racism in the workplace.

OverTheRainbow88 · 13/07/2020 10:06

I’ve heard a colleague be openly racist, and make vile statements, Like unbelievable statements; which I reported to the senior management team.

keeprocking · 13/07/2020 10:09

I had one manager describe a black customer as ‘a coloured gentleman’

As the acceptable terminology changes I can sympathise somewhat, this was the norm at one time.

I was once accused of being racist because when an Asian teacher's wife had a baby and he brought in some sweets and pastries from their culture I declined and said I didn't care for very sweet things, as I knew these to be from their first baby! A colleague said it was a very racist thing to do, I should have accepted graciously but when I spoke to him privately however he was fine and said he hadn't taken any offence! Too many people trying to micro-manage things.

whattimeisitrightnow · 13/07/2020 10:14

@keeprocking See, I understand elderly people using words such as ‘coloured’ because it’s what they grew up with. It doesn’t make it right - they could easily stop doing it once it’s explained to them - but I absolutely understand it. But this woman was late 40s/early 50s: the same age as my parents at the time, who would never in a million years have said such a thing.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 13/07/2020 10:18

Not aimed at me, but at my colleagues.

I worked at a large development charity with lots of projects across Africa. A large number of my colleagues came from African countries, however senior management was exclusively white and almost exclusively male.

Another charity. Three of my colleagues were speaking together in German and someone made a complaint to HR. The worst thing about this is that the complainant wasn't told to wind her neck in, but HR sent an email to everyone about speaking English in the office.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 13/07/2020 10:19

There's a Twitter hashtag - #charitysowhite

The racism people experience in my sector is hideous.

Isthisfinallyit · 13/07/2020 10:23

I once had a client call me wanting to speak to my colleague "the man with the foreign name". I asked him if he meant mr. French name? Nonono, an exotic name. I replied that we had a mrs indian name but she was clearly a woman, not a man. The client then gave me a physical description of my mixed race colleague, whose name was Bob Smith (not real name).

That one puzzled me.

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