AIBU to think there is a hierarchy of need

[RiveterRosie]

My question is, when you have been brought up and spent 60 years of being told (either directly or by manipulation) that your needs and wants are subservient to those of other people, how do you learn to put yourself first without feeling crippling guilt? Guilt that often makes you overcompensate to them in future?

Do other people have needs that "trump" your own?

For example, if a family member tells you they are having difficulty or struggling with something but you yourself don't feel well, or know that helping them will cost you money that you can't really spare, or feel that spending time with them will mean neglecting your DH, how do you work out whether their need is greater than yours and whether to give them help or not?

How do you work out who is being manipulative /needy, who really can't be bothered or just wants rid of a task, and who is genuinely in need?

How do you get over the deep ingrained idea that disappointment, unhappiness, ill health can be better borne by yourself than by someone else? That your back is broader than theirs and can bear a heavier load?

I didn't mean to put the vote boxes, but vote if you want to.

Interesting question OP.
I think counselling/therapy would be the option to choose here

You make a logical decision and keep the guilt out of it unless the other person's need is truly urgent.

Just stop being a martyr.

I guess I'd ask myself if those people have done lots for me in the past or if they would do the same for me, if they were able. For example my parents would drop everything to help me and I'd do the same for them. Other people I wouldnt. But I agree that counselling would probably be beneficial here, because I'm always surprised by the CF stories on mumsnet as I am hardly ever asked for anything by anyone! I seem to surround myself with self sufficient friends who don't overstep boundaries and I think that is probably partly down to how you think about yourself which is hard to change without insight from a third party

Yes therapy can help you overturn this kind of thing.

I guess you have to make a decision at some point and then put boundaries in place. Dh and I were looking after mil, but it was badly affecting our mental health so he didn't visit the care home as often and I stopped visiting altogether. The guilt was bad, but it was vital that we carried on functioning for the sake of the dcs. You have to keep reminding yourself that it's your life too and that you matter.

If the other person is someone who would genuinely put me first if I needed help, then I do the same for them.

If it's someone with a history of always expecting me to make them a priority, then I leave them to it.

I've found that the people who are most likely to say "You owe me this!" or "Where's your sense of duty" are usually life's takers rather than givers.

Therapy and talking through with someone will help.

Brutally speaking, look at priorities.

helping them will cost you money that you can't really spare helping them do what and circumstances are key.
If your siblings made different life choice, they are not your responsibility. Same for your parents.

Helping out with essentials when people are genuinely struggling is one thing, being expected to pick up the bill because they spent on something else is another.

"Put on your own oxygen mask before helping others."

^ It's good advice to live by.

Self esteem and boundaries. And the more you implement boundaries the higher your self esteem. Although you may need the help of a skilled therapist to reverse old habits.

You don’t need therapy. Too much navel gazing and introspection is not conducive to building resilience.
You just need to dump the whole idea of guilt unless you’ve committed a heinous crime. It’s a really destructive force.
As long as you act in the way you believe to be right, as long as you try to make decisions based on right and wrong, you shouldn’t feel guilt.
Most peoples moral compass isn’t so far from true north that they don’t know what the right way to act is. It may not be what we want at that time but if we stop and listen to our conscience, we usually know what’s right, rather than what’s easiest.
Then you don’t need guilt.

Focus on yourself. Take baby steps. Protect your health, sanity and time. Keep reading to be able to observe your reactions. You'll only change but by bit but it's worth it. If you have a good friend to talk or through with, that's be useful. Therapy would be great but a good friend can be a blessing.
Keep a log of interesting things like ownership books, websites or snippets of advice. Create a treasure trove of sorry for yourself.

Get educated, read the Lundy book first to find out how abuse works. More for relationships but the profiles could be applied to most people you know:

Lundy Bancroft's book 'Why Does He Do That? docdro.id/py03

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Information on sick systems:
www.issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html

Read up on the F.O.G
Fear, Obligation and Guilt
Out of the FOG is a good book

For help on setting boundaries:
Boundaries
amazon.co.uk/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454&ved=2ahUKEwiI-_G8kJXqAhXPTsAKHf2RA2QQFjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw04hvQ_8v2A95RpGSxSJxiV]]

For help on being separate from others:
Codependent No More
amazon.co.uk/Codependent-No-More-Controlling-Yourself/dp/0894864025&ved=2ahUKEwj05aWAkZXqAhXMbsAKHUGnDVoQFjAKegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw22s2NxLWZ4Z2t0VO6bfF1o]]

For help on healing:
The Body Keeps the Score
amazon.co.uk/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748&ved=2ahUKEwiA676MkZXqAhWKYMAKHT07CWAQFjAMegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0SYc1OQsdpcMbb9xt493MM]]

Finally, The Art of Being Selfish can be found online. Old writing but great ideas! Plus, When I Say No, I Feel Guilty is amazing! Will give you actual statements to user with CFs.

Good luck on your journey to the new you! 😂

You just need to dump the whole idea of guilt unless you’ve committed a heinous crime. It’s a really destructive force.

easy to say, but if someone is asking for help after 60 years for what is obvious for some of us, "just" doing this or that is hardly realistic is it.

I don't believe that giving depends on what you can/do get back, but at the same time you can't pour from an empty cup. I would say the time to stop is when you are giving so much that you no longer feel kind & generous to that person/situation, you feel resentful instead. For example if you can help for an hour but after the hour you start to feel resentful, stop after an hour. Or if you'd be happy to give £10 and not get it back but £15 would cause problems, then give £10. Or if it's got to the point where you've already given too much and you feel it's affecting your life negatively, then stop and say "I can't help right now".

Ive started thinking very transactionally. I'll help someone once, but jot again until theyve helped me. I found the ted talk about not giving a fuck very useful.

You sound like a people pleaser

It is ok to say NO

I could have written the OP myself! Following with interest and thank you to 37Justtryingtobehelpful for the book suggestions.

Can you provide us with a couple of examples, then we can offer some advice on what we would do ?

I got round all of it by taking assertiveness classes, having therapy, then putting my needs and wants first every time. Because no one else will.

So now I only do favours if I actually want to.

What do you think would happen if you say no ?
Sometimes there are alternative solutions