Paedophiles and safeguarding

[UnaCorda]

So Michael Jackson had Neverland, USA Gymnastics had the Karolyi Ranch, Jimmy Saville had his own room at Stoke Mandeville hospital, Jeffrey Epstein had his Palm Beach house and Little St James (aka "Paedophile Island"), etc., etc.

There's clearly something horribly calculated about these abhorrent men using their money, power and influence to create or commandeer a secluded and private space with the main aim of abusing underage women within it, but are these not also examples of egregious safeguarding failures? Have we learned from these oversights?

What drives these men? Is it a desire to control or is it purely sexual - or both? And do they somehow justify their actions to themselves, or do they simply not care about their victims?

AIBU to start a discussion about this??

YANBU

I’m not familiar enough with all your examples but certainly with Jackson & Saville the children’s parents were largely implicit because they accepted the strange behaviour and unusual circumstances thinking because these men were famous they must be ‘safe.’ It’s so sad for all the children involved that in many cases their parents albeit unintentionally placed them in these situations due to their own nativity.

*naivity not nativity

The Karolyis aren't convicted paedophiles. Their physical and mental abuse of the gymnasts happened wherever they trained them. Larry Nasser, the doctor, abused girls in his consulting room sometimes with parents present.

I would struggle to describe the Jeffrey Epstein case (for example) as a 'safeguarding failure'. That would appear to me to be blaming someone else (the parents? Social services?) who should have been keeping the girls safe, for what he did.

@MinnieMountain

The Karolyis aren't convicted paedophiles. Their physical and mental abuse of the gymnasts happened wherever they trained them. Larry Nasser, the doctor, abused girls in his consulting room sometimes with parents present.

I know - I've just watched Athlete A - but nevertheless it was called the Karolyi Ranch.

Not "underage women" - they are not women, they are children.

I realise this isn't the point of our thread and this isn't meant as a dig at you but language is important as predators use it in their defence.

@Tinamou

I would struggle to describe the Jeffrey Epstein case (for example) as a 'safeguarding failure'. That would appear to me to be blaming someone else (the parents? Social services?) who should have been keeping the girls safe, for what he did.

Fair point. Maybe Ghislaine Maxwell or Prince Andrew?

Surprising though that he did get away with the trafficking and abuse for so long without parents getting wind of it or authorities intervening.

Have we learned from these oversights

Nope. Its still ongoing and the women who are pointing it out are basically being told to shut up and be kind to the poor men.

@OddBoots

Not "underage women" - they are not women, they are children.

I realise this isn't the point of our thread and this isn't meant as a dig at you but language is important as predators use it in their defence.

No you're absolutely right, I totally agree and I'm not sure why I wrote that. (Possibly because I watched the documentary on Netflix and the victims are now women??)

when I say being told to shut up, thats usually in the form of threats of violence, rape and doxxing.

Which is better - victims or survivors? They certainly came across more as the latter in both the Jeffrey Epstein doc and Athlete A. Incredibly brave, strong women.

In truth, Saville isn’t a convicted paedophile either. His alleged victims were aged up to 75, so not only children that needed protection.

There have been very significant changes to safeguarding requirements in healthcare settings since the Panorama programme, with far more stringent processes in place for all volunteers including celebrities.

@Pertella

when I say being told to shut up, thats usually in the form of threats of violence, rape and doxxing.

What's doxxing?

The minimising ("no-one else has complained about this...") is such a common reaction designed to shut down any discussion, in all sorts of contexts.

Doxxing is revealing someones personal information. E.g if I knew your full name and address and posted it on here that would be doxxing.