German Government 'inheritance' - Any lawyers about ?

[ptumbi]

This doesn't really belong in AIBU but posting for traffic -

My mum is German, lived over here for 60+ years, now fully naturalised British. Recently one of her sisters died in Germany, without a will, without any assets either, only debts.

Under German law, they look to her kids for a beneficiary of any Estate, and for payment of her debts. She had one child, who has 'renounced' the inheritance (because there isn't any, only debts) and therefore the German Gov comes looking to Aunt's siblings. Mum has had to 'renounce' her inheritance, and therefore refuse the debts.
They then come to the next generation (ie me, my cousins etc) and I've had to renounce my inheritance (of an Aunt I met once, 50 years ago!). This had to take place at the Embassy in London, and I had to provide a Passport and proof of address (council tax bill) and pay £20, and then another £6 to send the validation to Germany.

They now want details of my dc - addresses to write to them so that they can renounce the inheritance. My kids are over 18.

AIBU - my kids have never even met this woman, and had no idea she existed until she died. Now they have to get their passports ( not even sure if DC1 has a current one, and she doesn't drive either) and proof of address - DC2 is going to uni in Oct and won't have any proof of that address yet, if ever. Or even for his address now - he only has Bank Statements (online; printouts) And then they have to pay £20 and once stamped and validated, send it off to Germany!

Why should we comply? We are not German citizens, and not bound by German law.

You aren’t subject to German law, but some orders from foreign courts can be enforced in the U.K. with the consent of the courts of this country. I’ve no idea if that would apply in these circumstances, or if the people dealing with your aunt’s will would bother going down that route.

If you want to be sure of no future hassle I would give them what they’re asking for. If you really don’t want to, you may want to consult a lawyer to fully understand the position and any consequences you may face (but that is probably more expensive and inconvenient than just sending off the docs).

Thanks - Yes I've complied with it all so far, but it gets complicated when one DC doesn't have a current passport or Driver's Licence, and the other won't have any proof of address!

It's not a matter of sending off documents; I had to go to the Embassy in London (during Covid) so trainfare, admin/validation fee, postage fee... all of which my kids are going to incur too, for a great-aunt they've never met.

And it's all a bit of a pain when this is an Aunt of my mum's generation - why should my kids be liable for her debts! You'd think it would be costing the German Gov much more to contact all 3 generations, than to just write off the debts (which are funeral costs, nursing home costs etc)

That’s horrendously unfair OP maybe worth speaking to someone duel-qualified to find out if it’s likely they’ll try and enforce the debts, or whether generally it’s “written-off” for foreign jurisdictions - although as PP said this advice may indeed cost more than what you’ll pay here.

If your son who is going to uni is registered on the electoral register at your home now, he can get the electoral officer to certify he is registered there. They accepted it as proof as address for when I started my latest job- all my bills are online and it was the easiest way.

It seems a very complicated and pointless law- surely anybody, if the debts were greater than the assets, would just pass over the inheritance?

Well you ask why should you?

But I guess they do everything they can to show that they have attempted to get the debts paid before they are written off?

It will surely end with your children anyway (as far as you're concerned)?

If there had been an inheritance & you'd missed out you'd be complaining that they hadn't shown such diligence!

I’ve never heard of this before, what would happen if you just lied and said you didn’t have contact details for your kids or your kids refused to go to London for this rigmarole? They can’t exactly force you to pay or put the debts in their names? It should be obvious no one is going to voluntarily take on a dead aunts debts from another country.

There must be school records, something op. To prove where your children live currently?

In addition if they were coming after you to giv you money you’d be all over it, it really is easier to just comply and than let it drag on.

Thinking about this more OP I’d go back to whoever is asking for your kids details and ask them what the penalty is if your refuse to provide them, and what law they would pursue any penalty under. If my mum gave my details over for something like this I’d be really pissed off.

For my work I sometimes have to trace missing people and it usually costs a lot of money through a tracing agency, especially if there’s not much info to go on.

Is it really the case in Germany that accrued debts of the deceased can be passed on to relatives to be paid out of their own pockets? I am surprised (assuming I haven't misunderstood). I think I would have consulted a lawyer over this.

I found this: www.hg.org/legal-articles/german-probate-law-heirs-are-personally-liable-for-decedent-s-debts-and-obligations-21481

I've just googled it, so now I am officially amazed by the German system of inheritance, in that you inherit debts. You learn something every day. There is loads about it online op.

can you email these people?
www.german-probate-lawyer.com/en/home.html

It looks like in practice the inheritor's are only personally liable up to the value of what's in the estate (i.e they don't have to pay out of their own pockets on top of that), but there's more paperwork if that's the case.

e-justice.europa.eu/content_succession-166-de-en.do

Jeez! Have you (or anyone else) actually told them you have children? If they can't identify the relatives then the State inherits. Presumably once that happens they can't do anything retrospectively.

If your son who is going to uni is registered on the electoral register at your home now, he can get the electoral officer to certify he is registered there - it's more complicated in that he moved out of mine about 18 months ago into an address with his gf, then has moved again in May to an address owned by gf! So not sure where he is registered, or if any bills are addressed to him at new address.

Yes to PP - if there was any money in the Estate, I suppose I'd be happy for them to contact me. However, Aunt had a child, who is now my age with a family of her own, who I would expect to inherit it! No way would I expect money from her, and likewise I don't expect her debts!

Unfortunately, one of my other aunts has testified that I have children, so I can't just 'lie', no. I suppose I could claim to not know their addresses.... if it was worth the worry!

Thanks for the links - I'll have a look. I hadn't been able to find anything online other than what the German Embassy had put up.