Jacqueline Wilson - thoughts?

[whattimeisitrightnow]

Posting in AIBU for traffic and also because there's another thread currently running here that's sort of about her works.
I grew up reading JW obsessively, really loved her work. If I'm honest, I'd probably still enjoy reading some of her books as an adult! However, now that I'm older I'm easily able to identify problems with a lot of them: some of it was my own fault, as I read the ones for teens/mature readers when I was too little for them.

That being said (talked about this on the other thread) there's one book, Love Lessons, based on a student-teacher relationship where said relationship is presented in an almost positive light, in a very romantic way. The female student is pretty much blamed entirely for what happens and is kicked out of the school while the teacher keeps his job. The abuse of power isn't explored at all. Generally, I think JW books really seek to give a voice to children, especially those in extremely difficult situations who might feel particularly powerless, and that's commendable. LL seems to be an exception.

What do people think of JW books? Did you enjoy reading them? Do you think they're too 'dark' for children? Did you even find them helpful at times? (I remember the ones with abusive parents really resonating with me, even before I was old enough to articulate why.) And do you let your own kids read them?

Agree with navigator - my kids devoured these books, I sometimes used to make jokes about whether they should be reading them but I left them to it

No, I haven’t missed the point of the book it’s really not that complex.
The thing is, nowadays most children learn that expressing racist views makes you unkind, irredeemable, ignorant etc. And yes, the point is that Mary is very unpleasant at the beginning of the book. But some kids might need the push to understand that it’s still okay to like her - that’s it fine to accept her ‘redemption’, as it were. I never suggested micro-managing, you made that part up. It’s the one of the jobs of a parent to discuss tricky topics with kids. As I said clearly in an earlier post, you likely wouldn’t need to have those discussions with older readers and maybe not with younger. It just depends on the child. If you know your child might be confused by what they could view as the acceptance of racism, why would you not have a chat with them about it?

TheNavigator I was making a tongue in cheek response to Carriemac saying Jacqueline Wilson books are "misery lit for kids" but then going on to say she loved The Secret Garden - a novel which when you break it down could be considered as 'misery lit' (Carriemac s phrase).
I am guessing thatCarriemac is one of those who hasn't read a JW book in 20 years.

Infact you could say that 'Katy' by JW is a novel about 'loss and growth'. Katy loses the life she has known by becoming paralysed. Her carefree outdoor life and activities she wants to do like skateboarding are gone. Her immerging independence is gone (she is 11 about to start secondary school) and she has to rely on help for the basics of life - including from her step mum who she (in her mind) doesn't get on with. However she begins to learn to accept what has happened to her, learn to cope with her new life, learn to ask for help when she needs it and how to also do things by herself - that's 'growth'. Katy is an excellent book. A clever reworking of a 'classic' novel which if you have read both can make you think about the different ways disabilities were treated in Victorian times vs 21st Century or if you have never read the original it is a good solid novel about a young girl coming to terms with a major change in her life. Both Katy and Mary have a lot of loss and growth to deal with.

My DD (10) loves the JW books. I explained early on that there are some books she may want to leave til she is older and she has self-managed that. Jacky Daydreams is a fascinating read about JW herself and what inspired her to write the stories she did. DD has also read some classics, HP, Enid Blyton etc. We have talked about a wide range of attitudes in fiction as a result. But the JW books have been fabulous for keeping up her reading. I know they aren't for everyone. My niece hated them.

I haven't seen Love Lessons but I have just read several reviews of it and an interview with JW. She said she wanted to break taboos and has essentially written a fantasy i.e what teenage girls want to read. Knowing other JW books I suspect that if/when my daughter reads it she will conclude that it isn't fair that Prue gets the blame for the affair, which may hopefully plant a seed in her brain. There is also no sex in it (not saying this would make a real life teacher relationship OK, it doesn't). Having worked in safeguarding I would also be happy to talk to her about real life examples of this and exploitation etc. I will reserve proper judgement til I have read it though.

The secret garden is a beautiful classic with themes of redemption and renewal .
JW books , which none of my kids ever enjoyed , are just miserable.

Sorry Carriemac but not all JW books are miserable. Some start out that way but have happy endings - just like a 'classic' novel such as The Secret Garden. What was the last JW book you/your children read?

I also completely disagree that they are miserable.

@bookmum08 - sorry, I missed your irony in my haste to defend The Secret Garden

My girl's both devoured JW and I think she is great for encouraging young people to read.

TheNavigator you could have so much fun 'turning' plots of classic novels into Take a Break style stories
Especially those grim Dickens ones.
(Shakespeare is more Jeremy Kyle)

My daughter loved JW books when she was younger. Paula Danziger was my author of choice back in the day. Always a bit of an angsty theme and a journey to enlightenment! ‘Remember me to Harold Square’ being one of my faves!

Ooh Ella I was obsessed with Paula Danziger. They sadly don't seem as great re reading as an adult (Judy Blume are still good reads though). The one 'This Place Has No Atmosphere" which was set in the future seems soooo dated (if that makes sense).

Yes bookmum! They haven’t really aged well, unfortunately, (a bit like point horror), I always wanted to go to an American summer camp due to ‘There’s a bat in bunk five’, and I ate my first pack of pistachios off the back of ‘The Pistachio Prescription’. These books were definitely a big part of my growing up.

I did my GCSE English oral report on Paula Danziger. I think my favourite was The Divorce Express (cos I weirdly like long bus journeys).

The other thread everyone hates David walliams cos hes trite and full of silly stereotypes and on here everyone hates Jacqueline Wilson cos shes 'misery lit', And yet kids devour both, so they're doing something right!

I personally think we should let children read widely and draw their own conclusions. I never attempted to censor my girl's reading or 'contextualise' it to be more PC - although we would have discussions, I think reading for pleasure should be encouraged and not treated like a lesson.

Both my, now adult, daughters did well in English at school and are both happy successful adults who enjoy reading. Children aren't stupid, they mix in the modern world and have social media. They know more about black lives matter, cultural appropriation, gender issues than probably we do. Trust your children to form their own judgements. Be open to discuss, but never lecture. That is my view.

David Walliams is not too bad but I think they date quickly because he makes reference to pop culture too much and the popular telly programmes and celebs referenced in his early books probably mean nothing to 9 year olds today. The Princess Diaries has the same problem.
I am tempted to start a Wimpy Kid thread to see what we get ("AIBU or is Greg Heffly the most obnoxious boy in the universe?")

Very interesting thread! I reread 'Vicky Angel' recently, it's a surprisingly complex book in its way.

I think that the problem with 'Love Lessons' was the failure to express within the book the reality that the relationship was paedophilic and illegal, never mind plain wrong. I think a lot of her books would raise eyebrows nowadays - for instance, I echo the poster above who has concerns about 'Girls Under Pressure'. I loved it when I was a teen and read it several times, but I'd be very hesitant to give it to a teenage girl nowadays, as I would worry that it might accelerate body image issues and possibly foster disordered eating. However, there's a teacher in the book (Mrs Henderson?) who repeatedly expresses concern about Ellie, and tries to help her, and the Zoe storyline brings the reality of anorexia into focus for Ellie. It's potentially a rough read and probably not idea for a suggestible or vulnerable young teenager, but an ultimately balanced portrait of eating disorders.

Love Lessons isn't balanced. When the relationship is found out the headteacher explicitly scolds the protagonist for her "ridiculous behaviour" which "almost got him in serious trouble", and when the girl says "this is all my fault", the headteacher says "I'm inclined to agree with you". (I'm going from memory here, apologies that these aren't direct quotes.) There's no opposing voice to balance the blanket victim-blaming, to suggest that children are not responsible for adults "getting in trouble" by engaging in sexually inappropriate behaviour with them, and I consider that to be an utterly egregious oversight given the target audience. It fully reproduces the groomer's playbook ("if anyone finds out you'll get in trouble and everyone will call you a slut") and plays it out to its conclusion with the teacher swerving any kind of repercussions. There will be some girls who see through it and feel enraged (and these are girls who will probably be far less at risk from being groomed in the first place), but there will be others who look up to Jacqueline Wilson and see her books as a way of learning about the world.

I'm afraid I agree with a poster that I really think JW thought she was writing a love story here, and wrote it in a very naive frame of mind. I can't think of any other of her books which are so unequivocal on their subject matter.

Can anyone link the other Jacqueline Wilson thread?

@QuimReaper Agree 100% re Love Lessons. You’ve summarised my thoughts on that book very eloquently.

@bettsbattenburg @DishRanAwayWithTheSpoon I actually think Jacqueline Wilson was surprisingly free with the use of the word "slag" in her earlier books - I'm pretty sure Kim and the mean girls in Bad Girls call Tanya "filthy slag" Pretty remarkable in a book about / aimed at 10 year old girls, but I guess the past really was a different country.

I managed to get hold of an ebook version of some of JW's books including Love Lessons through my library, and I've been really enjoying them! I think Love Lessons comes across as pure fantasy. The ending is weird, and the fact nobody investigated the teacher totally ridiculous!

I read the headteacher's comments about her behaviour at school being related to why she felt she'd do better at the grammar school, rather than a rough comprehensive, and not evidence of her being sexually promiscuous. It was quite a neat ending in that sense with all the ends tied up. But definitely odd that the teacher didn't get suspended.

I've just finished Love Lessons for the first time. Prue was very immature due to lack of proper socialisation and was 100% taken advantage off / groomed by the teacher. I wish I had of read it as a teen so I could compare what my interpretation was during my first read.

I think the head teacher knew it was inappropriate but rather than deal with it, it was easier to move her to the other school.
I grew up on an estate between two very rough secondary schools (mid 00s) and if a student proved too much of a problem (being a builied, being a bully or too much lip/disruption amongst other things) they where pulled into the office in a Friday afternoon and told they where starting the other School on Monday morning, everything was all arranged the family was provided with a voucher to buy a new uniform and advised if they didn't take up the place they still wouldn't be welcome back at the original School - my cousin was transfered out

I agree with letting children read the classics such as TSG without a moral health warning. In fact I think it's particularly important right now because there is less and less understanding or tolerance of how people thought in different times and places. Our culture is becoming very rootless and eviscerated because of the pressure not to look past certain modern taboos.

TSG and many, many other classics are the product of their times, and they bring the past to life in many ways bad and good. God forbid that we should have anything to learn from the past, or at least learn something by understanding it a little better.

To be horrified by this Jacqueline Wilson book and the message it sends to teens? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/1785255-To-be-horrified-by-this-Jacqueline-Wilson-book-and-the-message-it-sends-to-teens