Selfish bastards on Homes Under The Hammer

[SquishyBones]

Watching this shit show as I was bored and a family bought a house. The woman then proudly explained that they already own 700(!!!) houses in the area already and are hoping to own 1000 by the end of the year. How the fuck is this even allowed?? AIBU to think selfish bastards like this should be stopped and there should be a cap on how many properties a person can own? Even 10 houses per person would be ridiculous but would stop the likes of these people

I’ve avoided property when investing as it doesn’t sit well with me ethically.

I’ve avoided property when investing as it doesn’t sit well with me ethically.

This is how I feel. I've got the spare cash to be able to buy a a BTL in the nearby university city. It would make sense as an investment, and the OH and I had a conversation about whether we could be 'decent landlords' (charge at the bottom rent of the going rate, look after the tenants if they look after the property etc). But we couldn't bring ourselves to do it. In the last analysis we would still be using the fact that we have money to to profit from those in a less fortunate position.

And to those saying LLs provide a service: they just don't. Firemen, doctors, hairdressers, lawyers, nail technicians and binmen provide services. The world is a better place for what they do. Landlords just skim off the top of society IMO. Yes they may occasionally fix the boiler or the gutter (or in fact, very often not) but that is entirely peripheral, and in any event is just looking after the LL's own asset.

I think we all just going to have to agree to disagree on this. Letting to students must be some of the most useful things someone can do. It is not as if the student would ever be in a position to buy surely at that age and they will always need somewhere to live at univeristy? it is not like kidnapping them and pulling out their nails. it is providing them with a lovely home just as you might provide them with lunch from your cafe.

it use to be that first time buyers could grab a bargain fixer-upper to get them started.

Plenty of fixer uppers around. I looked at some myself, but:

1. It costs shitload of money. I saw one which didn't have central heating. As a standard FTB, I simply didn't have the money. Imho, I wouldn't get mortgage anyway because even I would deem that house inhabitable.
2. Many ftbs simply don't want that work.
3. The really cheap ones where you could get mortgage AND have enough left over to do it up are in areas even I don't want to live and I live in one of the most deprived postcodes around!👀

(Great area! Quiet and low crime🤷🏻)

And then there is the "Ugh. I couldn't live where you live. That postcode is horrible" while they are moaning about "never being able to afford to buy" because they want the done up 300k house in nice postcode and currently rent in one of the most expensive areas around town🤷🏻

It's horrible - they are using other people's labour to buy themselves more property. Their tennants will have very little security and are unlikely to be able to afford homes of their own.

And to those saying LLs provide a service: they just don't.

That has to be the most ridiculous comment of the thread. Of course they provide a service. A whole host of people need or want to rent. Not everyone wants to own the house they live in.
I'm very grateful to the various landlords that I and my children have had over the years. I don't recall a single bad one but then we were/are good tenants. I'm guessing that helps a lot.

@lyralalala And @Treacletoots I think your both right about agents, sorry I was a grumpy cow.
All my homes were with the same agent, the agent who has taken over every small independent EA in our local area. If you get on the wrong side of them, you are totally fucked. You literally can’t rent, that is how they get away with it. They’ve really driven down standards locally, and don’t help with anything.

So many bitter, jealous people on here knocking other people’s success. I’m sure it makes no difference to people who want to take risks and reap rewards.

Agents are notorious for not having a clue about legislation. I've heard of loads of stories where landlords haven't provided all necessary paperwork at the start of a tenancy meaning the LL can't serve a S21 further down the line. And during Covid, agents are happily continuing to charge their fees even when tenants aren't paying. Oh, and the agents who offer rent guarantee products only to not bother guaranteeing jack shit in the last three months.

Yes, agents are worth every penny (of the up to 20% they deduct from the rent).

@Boomclaps it's an emotive topic. There's good and bad on both sides but what I can say for sure is that I have yet to find a good agent.

@sst1234 I think it’s hard, when you’re spending nearly all your money, to not be bitter when you’re not allowed to paint over or treat the damp, when you call your EA regularly to report a broken built in oven and it takes 104 days to fix it. When your 500 quid washing machine is damaged by a leak that they told you they’d fixed. And where all of these things end up costing you money, that pushes you further into a trap.

@Treacletoots glad to hear it’s not just me that’s got bad experiences with agents. I think they’re the issue.
Onwards and upwards until I’m back from maternity leave and things have evened out a little and we finally buy.

[quote Boomclaps]**@lyralalala* And @Treacletoots* I think your both right about agents, sorry I was a grumpy cow.
All my homes were with the same agent, the agent who has taken over every small independent EA in our local area. If you get on the wrong side of them, you are totally fucked. You literally can’t rent, that is how they get away with it. They’ve really driven down standards locally, and don’t help with anything.[/quote]
They are just a nightmare. Every single person I've ever heard complain about a rental has involved an agent

I don't doubt there are tenants locally who wouldn't come near me as my first tenant had a nightmare time with the agent.

And I thought I was doing the right thing by getting someone more experienced involved in the management because I was new at it

I've lived in many, many rentals. Haven't had to since 2002, apart from one brief period between house buys. However, I live in dread of ever having to rent again in this country, due to my experiences. There are many varied reasons for that, but the experience is real. I know there are some great landlords who provide people with a home; but the landlord has the power over your home. Who would happily chose to give over this power to someone else if they had the choice? Yes, sometimes it suits, but a lot of the time you have no choice.

the idea that 'nail technicians' make the world a better place tells us all we need to know about mumsnet. A polluting industry plagued by modern slavery and pointless use of resources. But it gives the insta-mummies ickle pretty patterns on their dainty fingers, so that's ok. (Actually long painted nails look really filthy to me, and also show that the owner does fuck all of any use).

landlording is a business. Same as running a supermarket. Both have regulations, in the UK anyway. There's no need for head-up-arse babble about ethics.

don't rent shitholes from crooks. If you are unfortunate enough to live in London and can't afford anything but a shithole, leave. Yes, I know that will leave London with no lower-paid workers but that's a problem for governments, elected by the likes of us. And we won't vote for higher taxes which is what is needed due to our growing population.

It’s a business? I echo what Bluntness said.

But we couldn't bring ourselves to do it. In the last analysis we would still be using the fact that we have money to to profit from those in a less fortunate position

Why do you think your presumably university student tenants would be in a less fortunate position.

Do you mean that they come from families that can’t afford to buy their children a place outright whilst they are at university

I'm not going to engage with you on this Oliversmumsarmy. You have your values, I have mine. Let's leave it there, please,

What I will say is that the world would be a better place if the appropriate housing stock was owned by the university or council or other non-profit body, and leased to the students at cost. Cheaper accommodation and the removal of a layer of often (though not always; I'm sure you're a diamond) abusive landlords and agents would improve access to education and social mobility. A 'business' based on the principle that money begets money has the opposite effect. Of course, there's no going back now.

Huh? The principal that money begets money is the basis of all business. You have to spend some to earn some is one of life's truisms... From purchase of machinery to commuting costs, loss of family time to paying an accountant.

Nobody runs a business without need for profit.

But we couldn't bring ourselves to do it. In the last analysis we would still be using the fact that we have money to to profit from those in a less fortunate position
Did you get the money winning the lottery? Inheritance?

What if you saved that money because you are beans on toast every day, walk every where or took the bus rather than pay for a car, o my have old/beaten up furniture, never go out/have stake away and not gone on holiday?

What if your circumstances are the same than those you consider less fortunate but you chose to save and invest by given up some life pleasures when the others haven't?

The principal that money begets money is the basis of all business

This just isn't true. If I set up as a window cleaner, or a car mechanic or hairdresser, or I make funny statues of Boris Johnson, or whatever - yes, I may, to varying degrees need some start-up costs but what I'm ultimately selling is the fruits of my labour. There's a quid pro quo that goes beyond 'I've bought up shit you need because I have money sitting round and now I'm going to use that to make even more money'.

'Money begets money' may be the basis for 21st Century runaway capitalism where those who already have wealth can use that simple fact to become even wealthier, with very little effort or real risk (very few people have bankrupted themselves by buying and letting houses as property is so safe). But you can't possibly think that's a good thing?

I am interested to know what we are supposed to do if the only rental properties were owned by the council for long term tenants or universities for students.

We are in the process of selling our house.

Given the market there are very few houses for sale where we want to live (we have a 20 mile radius from a certain point so not exactly limiting ourselves to a tiny area)

We know we are going to have to go into rented as we just can’t find anything that would fit the amount of vehicles we have on the driveway.

If being a landlord was not something anyone could do, where exactly would we live?

@thedancingbear - I am old enough to remember going to university and renting a room in the Halls of Residence, and I agree with you - it was much better. Plus we got a grant rather than a loan for the living costs, and didn’t have to pay tuition fees. That would be brilliant for social mobility, and getting more students from deprived backgrounds.

I also think we need more proper social housing - decent houses or flats, that people can rent for a sensible amount, without the worry that the landlord is going to decide to sell or put the rent up or decide to throw you out. Basically, we need the council housing stock brought back up to pre-Right-To-Buy levels, or beyond.

I do think the private rental market has its place, but there needs to be a balance between the right of private landlords to make a profit, and the right of tenants to a secure, decent home.

This just isn't true. If I set up as a window cleaner, or a car mechanic or hairdresser, or I make funny statues of Boris Johnson, or whatever - yes, I may, to varying degrees need some start-up costs but what I'm ultimately selling is the fruits of my labour

But in the price you charge you have to cover your expenses. Transport costs, insurance. The depreciation of the “tools.” How much you need to live on versus the going rate for the job. What happens if you are off sick and can’t work
How many hours you need to do in order to cover all your outgoings.

It isn’t about start up costs then away you go and you don’t have to pay for anything else.
There are ongoing costs in running any business and to ignore those costs I think is short sighted.

In 1979 I only got 1 year (and you could apply for year 3 if there was space) in a hall of residence (it was not Oxbridge which has always been 3 years live in). Also only 15% of people could go and the rest in effect had to pay for their fees through tax and if your parents didn't make the minimum grant (which was a very very low maintenance sum) to the full grant you couldn't go... my parents kindly did. At least these days the very badly off families can get a maintenance loan of about £8k or even up to £11k in London and others about £4300 loan with the hope a parent will make it up to the same amount.

I tihnk there are several different markets for lettings. The kind I have had and used and which my adult children have and then they have in their turn as have I let out is relatively expensive and for people who tend to want a place for a year because they are on a secondment or not sure where they want to buy yet and stamp duty is so expensive (my son spent a third of a year's pay on stamp duty last year just to move to a fairly bottom end house in Oxon but stamp duty is another story.... far too high; abolish it entirely).

Then there are properties at very low rents (some people still ahve regulated tenancies from the old rent act days - you can do a search by your post code to see the levels of rents those people pay as it is public. The very old Register of Fair rents is at www.gov.uk/check-register-rents, I just saw one near me semi detached £450 a month (outer London). The market rent which is basically the amount that covers landlords' costs to buy (or did because they started taxing landlords on profits they don't make) is about 3x that but for that 3x you would get central heating and newish kitchen etc.

At the moment landlords with a mortgage do not make a profit in many places as property prices are dropping and they are taxed on the rent rather than the rent less the interest on the mortgage in many cases.