AIBU to think that Extinction Rebellion have just thrown women under the bus?

[ArcheryAnnie]

This thread is really for those of you who think that - however flawed XR is - the threat of climate change really does need a mass, radical movement of people and groups. Up until now Extinction Rebellion has been that organisation.

XR in recent days tweeted a thread about "Trans Pride", pinning their colours to the highly contested notion of gender identity, using the slur "TERF", and basically declaring themselves and their mission off-limits to anyone who has a different opinion about the importance of biological sex.

I have looked through their twitter account, but I have been unable to find any threads labelled "Lesbian Pride" that they've tweeted.

This is a movement that should include everyone of every political stripe. It shouldn't seek to narrow itself down any further. We all need to act together to create opportunities to mitigate climate change, whatever our opinions on anything else.

This is also a movement that needs to be absolutely beyond criticism when dealing with science and facts. This stance of theirs does not reflect any kind of scientific consensus, but a rigid ideological viewpoint that isn't subject to any kind of review or logic.

I've been a critical supporter of XR from the start, and have taken part in both discussions and actions. Since they are busy throwing women (and especially lesbians) under the bus, I won't do so any more.

We need an environmental movement that won't throw women under the bus, and, as a bonus, is ready to embrace radical action without the kind of macho gung-ho nonsense that has marred some of XR's actions to date. I don't know where we are going to find it, or how to create it, but we sorely need it, otherwise we are all fucked.

They jumped the shark when they started gluing themselves to things. Now they are playing student politics. Waste of space. Look elsewhere for support to drive real change.

Almost all the people I knew who were connected with XR thought the train thing was stupid, self-defeating (we need public transport!) and dangerous.

It's just a pity they've devolved even further and we have to start again. We really don't have time for this posturing nonsense.

It makes a mockery of their campaigning on scientific matters and imo are now a laughing stock. My local xr members are very aggressive towards other locals who have a different opinion, so I think they'll be a perfect fit for the TRA agenda.
The left always eats itself.

I’ve been conflicted about XR. The tube train stuff was annoying but yes, the message needs to get out there and they’re certainly doing that. I could have been persuaded to get involved...

But as a lesbian who thinks sex matters more than gender, they’ve made it very clear now that they don’t want me involved. And it sounds as if they don’t give a fuck about science unless it suits them to.

A lot of orgs seem to do this sort of thing.

I think it's a terrible idea.

You risk diluting your message and alienating people if you diverge from your core aim.

The way for single issue groups to get traction is to focus hard on the issue.

It's a poor strategy to start in on other issues that are already covered by others.

And as an aside.

Why this issue? There are loads of more relevant ones they could have pushed which are more directly linked to their goal.

Many people in XR eat meat, which is the biggest cause of climate change. I lost my respect for them months ago.

And yes, they're misogynistic too.

Thanks, Annie, I too felt the rug disappear from under my feet a bit seeing the Twitter and FB posts over the weekend.

Like you, I have supported XR's science led campaign, participating in local and national actions, and applauded the massive move toward shifting the Overton window and bringing the urgency of the climate emergency into the mainstream and further up national agendas across the globe.

Irrespective of what people make of various actions, I believe XR has an important role to play, and that they have been doing it very effectively.

I noticed that the statement was put out by what appears to be a much smaller sister (?) XR account on Twitter, and is defended most ardently and almost exclusively by a single individual who appears to be responding to most of the messages questioning the scientific basis of TWAW etc, so wonder if this person may in fact be behind the original posting and perhaps the 'owner' of the account, given that XR is all for autonomous action as long as it complies with the working principles.

The main XR account has no mention of this statement and has had quite a bit of activity over the same period by a number of environmentalists and influential individuals in the movement who could have chosen to RT or comment on this 'endorsement', but notably haven't. I'm hoping rainbow-haired, NB ally gone rogue in very tiny tea cup.

There appears to be slightly too many of them who are edging towards the 'rebellion' bit.

The 'save the planet from extinction' bit seems to be turning into a sideline.

I was a staunch supporter and activist. I'm a 60 something lifelong green activist, been involved with many campaigns over the last 45 years.
I've left XR as a result of this, and some other, recent stuff

Yeah, I saw it on Instagram and was really surprised. I get that their position is that climate justice is social justice etc but it doesn’t seem to me like it’s an issue they needed to take a side on.

This is a stupid move on their part. Despite the DLR incident which made no sense, I've been really encouraged by the the fact they were winning support from really diverse sections of society.

Many people in XR eat meat, which is the biggest cause of climate change. I lost my respect for them months ago.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

Also, this reminded me of something else. I belong to a Vegan Facebook Group and the organisers have come out and said that you are not a proper vegan if you don't believe that TWAW. Their reasoning is that you can't champion the rights of one group (animals) whilst ignoring the rights of another groups (trans people).

Utterly fucking ridiclulous.

FFS.

What sex you are or gender you live as has fuck all to do with Climate Change. When we’re all dead of famine our bones will identify what sex we were. They need to stick to their own message.

you are not a proper vegan if you don't believe that TWAW

I think my brain just crashed, trying to make sense of that.

Are we talking cannibal societies that only eat men and fail to validate tw by sparing them from the pot?

So they support trans rights, so what?
They apparently tweet something about Trans Pride so that means theyr'e throwing women under a bus, OMG, can't support them anymore.
Either support climate change or don't, just because they have a different view to you on other stuff though doesn't mean you have to stop supporting them.
What's one of the mantras? Even if they don't believe in everything that I do, it doesn;t matter what it is they believe in as long as we have this in common....
In other words, if you were serious or passionate about climate change you'd campaign for it regardless of whether they came out with TWAW or Trans Pride or not.

In other words, if you were serious or passionate about climate change you'd campaign for it regardless of whether they came out with TWAW or Trans Pride or not.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains funnily enough, it's possible to campaign against climate change without tying yourself into one single organisation or movement. And when the people who control the comms of one organisation tie that organisation into an ideology where there is no consensus on the science, and where the proponents of that ideology have a documented and very public track record of vicious attacks against people (mostly women) who disagree with them, it's reasonable to challenge this, and look for a different organisation with which to campaign.

And it isn't about "supporting trans rights", ffs. What rights are you talking about? And if XR are so keen on rights, where is there support for women's rights, or lesbian rights?

XR deleting comments and questions is also not a good look.

Tbh they seemed like a bunch of irresponsible idiots from the start. Which is a crying shame

Bloody hell, Spurgeons that isn't a good look at all.

@WineAndHobnobs well I hope all those vegans were wearing clothes not made by child labour.

There's a lot more exploited children in the world than TW. By a factor of a few million or maybe a billion.

Not as trendy though.

Another one here withdrawing support for XR over this. Shocking misogyny.

Not a real vegan unless you think TWAW?! That's easily the dumbest thing I've read today, and there's been some steep competition. So, to be clear, it's OK to acknowledge the biological sex of female animals to campaign against exploiting their reproductive systems - forcibly inseminating cows, forcibly keeping them lactating and taking their milk, saving female chicks to be bred while killing male chicks etc - but it's not OK to acknowledge the biological sex of female humans to campaign (amongst other things) against the exploitation of their reproductive systems. Logic checks out. Honestly, I'm a vegan but its people like that who make us all look like we're part of a mad cult.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/

This article (from a well respected science magazine) is worth a read re: the science in relation to binary notions of biological sex.

@WineAndHobnobs

Also, this reminded me of something else. I belong to a Vegan Facebook Group and the organisers have come out and said that you are not a proper vegan if you don't believe that TWAW. Their reasoning is that you can't champion the rights of one group (animals) whilst ignoring the rights of another groups (trans people).

Utterly fucking ridiclulous.

Well the thing about equality is you don't get to choose who to apply it to.

So it's true that if you support equality for one social minority group, you must logically support it for them all (women, people of colour, disabled people, non-human animals, etc).

However I disagree that e.g. making formerly sex-segregated spaces into gender-segregated spaces is necessary to support trans rights, and indeed doing so could impinge on the rights of women (or perhaps I should specify females). Which is not the case with other social justice topics.

Luzina what do you think that contributes to the discussion?

As the mother of a boy, I very likely have microchimerism - traces of male DNA in my brain. It makes absolutely no difference to, eg, how much I am paid, how little my voice is heard when compared to a man's, and how vulnerable or otherwise I am to male violence.