Employer closed at shutdown and reopened at a different location

[Charlieandthechocolatecake]

This is on behalf of my mum.

She worked at a cafe for 3 years. She never had a written contract. Its was a verbal agreement and the only proof is text messages and payments into her account.

The owners were never physically involved in the business. Mum opened and closed every day, done orders, deliveries etc.

The day lockdown was announced, mum went to work as usual and the owner was there, waiting outside. They asked her for her keys and told her they were closing until further notice due to the lockdown. Mum hasn't heard from them since despite trying to contact them multiple times.

She found out recently that they have reopened the business elsewhere in the (small) town. Regardless of Covid, this is something they've done 3 or 4 times over the past few years.

Mum is looking for other positions but I think that she should have been given either redundancy or furlough pay. She's a hard worker and it's just not right.

She's not tech savvy so I intend to contact ACAS in her behalf but does anybody have any knowledge in regards to stuff like this?
She never had a written contract but there's plenty of texts and bank statements showing that she worked there.

My understanding is the employer is responsible for paying her taxes, therefore would be responsible for back paying anything owed. I’m not an expert but recall this in a tax exam. If you can check her tax status with HMRC online and find the employer hasn’t paid up she could use it as leverage, although morally she should report them. No doubt they’d do it again in the new location.

Or it depends on whether she had her pay deducted, looking online. However she had no contract or payslip so harder to tell. If she had an agreed hourly rate you could work out whether it was down by an expected taxable amount or paid in full.

Ok firstly, as has been previously stated - she will not owe tax. That onus is on her employer. If they have not been paying her PAYE, HMRC will come after them not your mum.

And it does very much sound as is she was due redundancy. I'd think that she may just in time, because she would have been entitled to notice as well, which will make her actual leaving date later than it physically was, but the ACAS conciliator will work this out and advise if this is the case.
In any event the redundancy sounds badly handled and as they are now reopened not too far away, your mum's dismissal would probably not have been fair, plus she was not consulted.
The timing is all, so I'm glad you've already been in touch with ACAS.

Just check with your mum first if she was claiming as well - you don't want to get her in trouble.

OP you may be better off asking MNHQ to move this to the Employment Matters board, lots of knowledgeable people on there.

When did she receive the letter, it seems unlikely that on 20th March anyone would have known they were going to lose their business due to covid, that sounds like something they wrote much later and backdated.

About the tax thing... if your mum was self-employed she would have to submit invoices to them so if that hasn't happened, she should be PAYE otherwise how on earth were they presenting your mum's wages in their accounts? Under PAYE the employer is responsible for the deductions. What employers pay us is Nett pay, tax is deducted at source.
Now the tribunal bit... the time limit for redundancy pay issues is 6 months minus 1 day. The clock starts ticking from the point the issue first arose which could be deemed as the point your mum handed the keys back so there is still time. Other employment issues normally have a time limit of 3 months minus 1 day but tribunals will consider late submission for good circumstances and reasons. I have read that it is very difficult to get a late submission accepted by a tribunal but these rules were written for normal times, not pandemic times so they may take that into account. The other thing that would help is if they didn't make it clear your mum was sacked (redundancy is purely a reason for dismissal, it is still a dismissal), then there are good grounds for an extension to the time limit. Did they say she wouldn't be returning to work? When did the letter arrive? How backdated is that letter because it's an employers tactic to drag things out to run any claim out of time.
Look at these angles. Really good that you've been in touch with ACAS and got the ball rolling, keep it going because we need to get rid of unscrupulous employers like this. Her dismissal was unfair, no consultation, no notice, no redundancy pay, no offer of redeployment to the new premises which I would have expected if reopening within 6 months of closing. Add into that their poor employment practices, they're shits.
I took a former employer to tribunal over redundancy and won. Came out of the other side with the best part of a year's pay including notice and redundancy pay. Largely because my former employer took some poor advice from a HR consultancy. It cost them.
Keep pushing op. Hope it goes well.

Thank you for all of your advice!

Just to confirm, mum's employer reported her earnings to HMRC so she has paid tax and NI. She has claimed UC throughout despite working 6 days a week full time, being paid minimum wage, living in a very very cheap council house and only having my little brother at home. So there's no issue there other than she was never paid correctly. She never received payslips. The letter was hand delivered by the owners husband. Mum can't remember the date.

Somebody mentioned her claim should start from the end of her notice period which is positive as it means I've started the claim within the 3 months.

Somebody also said deadlines could potentially be flexible due to Coronavirus which is also a good sign. Thank you.

I've updated mum with all of you're advice, she's definitely perked up. She's promised that she's taking us all on holiday when she wins her case. I've told her, very softly, to hold her horses 😁

You've all been wonderful. I'll keep you updated. We're calling ACAS tomorrow x

My little sister lives close to mum so she's going to screenshot all messages tomorrow and email them to me.

Please tell your mum not to have anymore contact with her ex employers unless it’s witnessed and documented. Your mum sounds lovely but a bit naive, from this point on she needs to grey rock them.

Technically the clock starts at the time the infringement occurs so I'm not convinced about the end of notice period being the qualifying date but none the less these are difficult times and a tribunal should take that into account especially if it wasn't clear at the time of handing the keys back that your mum was permanently dismissed. Let ACAS do the talking to the employer as someone else suggested, they will be on the defensive once they discover they will potentially end up in court.
Good luck and hope she gets a nice settlement. She's nothing to lose.

Thank you.

I've told mum not to contact them again, she hasn't anyway but I just wanted to be in the safeside.

@LouHotel you're completely right, she is lovely yet very naive. She was really worried about calling ACAS today. I haven't been able to get hold of her but I'll give her a kick up the rear end tomorrow if she hasn't. I know she's concerned that she doesn't have numbers and figures. I've told her not to worry, she has the evidence and ACAS or a legal rep will sort out dates and numbers.

To be honest, I wouldn't have made the claim without you all. You've been great. Thank you.

I do have a question though, the business has moved address according to neighbouring businesses. Mum bumped into somebody who had made a very recent catering order. The business is still active according to Companies House. We can't find out where though. Will that be an issue?

I would make a record of all the details kept by Companies House, the directors full names, d.o.b., address etc. and see if they are linked to other businesses, addresses etc. If the company is taking orders by phone can you find out what that number is and ring up pretending to be considering placing an order and ask where the order would be collected from.

Has the business got a Facebook/instragram page etc with info on it.

Surely they would have told their clients/customers about the move - that would tell your DM where they are now?

Hi, an update. I've sooken to ACAS and they want me to send them an email detailing what mum is owed. Not just the type of compensation, the actual figures. I've contacted CAB but with no payslips (mum was never given them) or contract, it's proving quite difficult. I've also been advised to start a new separate claim for the unfair dismissal which takes mum out if the time brackets for claiming it.

Any advice or who get advice from would be much appreciated! X