...to offer this much?

[shiveringwiggles]

Just seen a three bed house we like on the market for 230k. The owners are deceased and the son is selling. It hasn't been updated in a few decades and would need new windows in every room. The kitchen and bathroom are barely functional and would need to be fitted and replaced before we could get to the cosmetic stuff (new carpets throughout etc) and properly 'live there'.

Am I being unreasonable to offer quite a bit under? 190/200k?

(We are first time buyers if this helps).

The house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. I wouldn’t go in at asking price but I wouldn’t go too low in case they then don’t consider you a serious buyer. But also depends on whether there’s interest from other people. A lot of work doing puts some people off but attracts others as they think they can increase the value themselves.

What kind of complaint about the shared wall? Would the complaint continue if you bought the house? You don’t want a bad relationship with your neighbours.

Depends on the nature of the complaint!

Some of these comments are ridiculous! Buying a house is a business transaction. The OP can OFFER whatever she wants me. The vendor doesn't have to accept.

Of course she can - she can offer two bob and a toffee apple if she wants. But presumably she also wants to be seen as a serious buyer. The ‘you can always up your offer’ argument only applies if the seller thinks you’re worth negotiating with in the first place. If you’re willing to accept even £10k under the asking price, £40k under is a very low starting point. The seller might just think ‘We’ll never get there with them; let’s keep advertising’.

For what it's worth we offered a bit under on our house (then bottled it and added 5K ) and it was accepted. The fact that we were first time buyers may have been a factor. I'd offer, they can always say no.

You’re not unreasonable to offer whatever you like, even if it’s significantly under. It might not be accepted, but that doesn’t make it unreasonable to offer.

A house is only worth what people will pay for it, regardless of what it has been valued at. You don’t know how much interest there has been in the house or how desperate the owner is to sell. It may be that conditions are perfect for a low offer to be accepted.

If you do go in low, the offer will simply be rejected and you can decide if you’re willing to make an increased offer.

So many cringe responses about "insulting" house offers - why are people so emotional about what is a transaction?

If I was selling a house at £500k and someone came in with an offer of £440k, I would be asking my estate agent (for it is he or she who is representing the bid) to ask them to qualify why this is a good deal for me. What about this bid is attractive considering how far away from our initial jointly agreed valuation it is? Does the buyer have a good position? Is the market turning and should I be persuaded to accept this offer?

The fact that people are so precious and greedy about their house prices is one of the things which make this country so depressing at times.

We get that for a lot of people a house is a "nest egg". It's "my investment". But for crying out loud, when it comes to buying time and you're not the seller, everyone wants the best bargain too in that scenario. It has to cut both ways.

op @shiveringwiggles I wouldn't take too much of this on here to heart. The key is to talk to your estate agent - if they are worth their salts they'll explain how they'll represent the attractiveness of your position and give context to the seller. Or they'll advise you it's a mad bid and may harm your position with future bids. Either way seek professional advice, not the opinions of people who would never see tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds in bonuses if they worked 50 years in their lifetimes.

I don't get the sensitivity either. I also remember when our late DGFs house went on the market, we all thought the estate agents were having a laugh with the price they came up, happily accepted a reasonable offer under the asking price.

In my experience estate agents pressure vendors to accept a low offer. The estate agent wants a commission after all.

@RHRA

Maybe estate agents pressure vendors to take lower offers because the initial asking price is often inflated, usually after a initial recommendation by the estate agent.

So the "lower offer" is actually the realistic price the house should go at. But by that stage the vendors have pound signs in their eyes and influenced by years of watching Phil and Kirsty doing telephone bids on zone 2 and 3 properties in London, they think they need to "hold out" for a figure that may never arrive.

You could offer 50p if you wanted.

Nobody on here will be able to tell you whether your offer is likely to be accepted as nobody knows the personal circumstances of the vendors.

Just keep in mind the amount of work that needs doing and how you’re going to fund that, so that it stays affordable if you start to negotiate upwards. If you’re thinking of making this low offer because it’s all you can afford, don’t be tempted to squeeze another £10k out if it means you won’t then be able to do the work you need to make it habitable quickly once you get the keys.

I’d steer clear of the property with the boundary dispute - no point setting up an issue before you even take possession. If a perfect house isn’t being snapped up there’s usually a reason, and it sounds like you’ve found it for this one.

@GinDaddyRedux
Yes that's correct but often, the house is correctly priced and estate agents pressure you to take a low offer. I've had this happen, sure others have too, and it's always been in the first week after a property I've sold has gone on the market.

It's irritating estate agent behaviour.
TBH when I've been selling, I'm not really interested in whether the buyer is a first time buyer, buying with a mortgage or a cash buyer. The only thing I'm interested in is getting the price I need for my next purchase, whether that involves a chain or doesn't.

When i bought my place my initial offer was $70k under asking ($320k, I offered $250k with reasons for that offer based on work that needed doing). It had been on the market for about 8 months. Eventually paid $40k under asking price. Apparently vendor had turned down more $$ earlier - think that was $10k under asking - didn't go their way as the property stayed on the market for quite some time...

So I'd say offer what you think the property is worth, taking into account what needs to be done. Then negotiate.

Just to point out also that the OP doesn't have estate agent ! The estate agent works for & is paid for by the Vendor not the buyer !
That's how it works in England OP, I don't know what countries some of this thread contributors hail from but their advice is clearly inaccurate.

So many cringe responses about "insulting" house offers - why are people so emotional about what is a transaction?

An ‘insulting’ offer isn’t about emotions. You’re essentially saying ‘I think you’re too stupid to know what your house is worth and that you should be grateful for any bone thrown your way’. Of course there’s nothing to stop you doing it, but don’t be surprised if they think you’re a timewaster and they’ll be better off waiting for someone else to make a serious offer. Cringe is a verb, by the way, not a noun.

The fact that people are so precious and greedy about their house prices is one of the things which make this country so depressing at times.

You’ve completely contradicted yourself here. If selling a house is a purely business transaction involving no emotion, how can a seller be ‘greedy’? They’re just setting a price they’re willing to accept - nothing personal. Why should you find their so-called ‘greed’ depressing? They don’t owe you an acceptance any more than you owe them a certain level of offer.

But by that stage the vendors have pound signs in their eyes and influenced by years of watching Phil and Kirsty doing telephone bids on zone 2 and 3 properties in London

You say that like Zones 2 and 3 are some backwater and it’s ridiculous that properties there should be in demand! Good properties DO move quickly. And you talk about telephone bids’ like this is some TV invention to make the process look more exciting, rather than the way most people make an offer. Granted, you’re not always battling another potential buyer, but phoning an estate agent is hardly some new-fangled process of house buying.

I don't think that's a cheeky offer tbh. Sounds like a fair starting point for a negotiation up to around £210-215k, which sounds reasonable for a 230k asking.

Our current house was on at £265k. Reduced after a sale fell through to £240k or thereabouts. We went in at £207k and agreed at £217 in the end.

It sounds as if the valuation has taken into account the work that needs to be done so the figures you suggest are unrealistic. £215 to £220 would be nearer the mark. If I were the vendor I’d get the work done then market it.

Try it. When my aunt died, my mum and uncle sold her house for peanuts - about 40-50k under the asking price - to the first person who made an offer just to get the house off their hands. I would never have accepted such a low offer but it just shows that some people do.

The for-sale price reflects the valuation by the selling agent. He took the current condition of the property into account, along with his knowledge of the local market prices and demand for that type of property. Everybody knows its a doer-upper, okay? The price takes account of that.

Whenever looking at property to buy, research recently-sold similar properties in the nearby area (Use Rightmove, free) to get a feel for the local market range.

You're going to need a solicitor to act on your behalf, and its well worth trying to find local recommendations from experienced property owners you know and trust. A good local solicitor should be able to advise you on a realistic offer . Cultivate good relations with him /her.

  A  prospective buyer  should be  selling themself  ; to the vendor and agent;  as  a real contender  who can afford the property and  will be easy and straightforward to  deal with if the deal goes ahead. 

Silly offers and conditions have the opposite effect.

  .

We offered thirty thousand less than the price for a house many moons ago and it was accepted.

You can only try it.

@Almostfifty

We offered thirty thousand less than the price for a house many moons ago and it was accepted.

You can only try it.

That’s pretty meaningless without knowing the price of the house.

@Alsohuman It was up for £210,000, we bought it for £180,000. It was twenty years ago.

We sold it four years later for £250,000 when we had to relocate. I cried, as it was the loveliest house I've ever lived in.

But for crying out loud, when it comes to buying time and you're not the seller, everyone wants the best bargain too in that scenario. It has to cut both ways.

     As a buyer, what I want is THAT  PROPERTY, and  I  won't  lose it for the sake of saving a few thousand quid.

I've never made a telephone bid for property . Mine are always made in writing, formally via my lawyer.

Same goes for offers from buyers; I won't entertain them unless made in writing, from their lawyer to mine.