to think shops and business should not be using aircon while we still have covid-19 circulating?

[Chicchicchicchiclana]

Yes, it's very hot and uncomfortable in many places right now.

But I was paying for my shopping in my local Co-Op last night, at the self service tills, and there was a whacking great aircon unit in full operation directly above where everyone was queuing/paying.

Am I wrong to find this very counter-intuitive? The shop is pretty cool because of all the fridges and doesn't have a large frontage facing directly into the sun or anything like that.

I think reducing/eliminating the use of aircon is a good thing for the sake of the planet.

Despite that, I don't think it's been shown to be a Covid risk (yet, so much still not understood). It's nowhere near as cold as a refrigerated area

Our health and safety director said there's no evidence that Aircon spreads it, even less so if it's an air rather than water cooled system, fans are worse as they move air sideways eg Bob is standing near a fan and sneezes, the fan then pushes his droplets much further than 2m into John's face.

I’ve banned fans in the workplace where I work. Air con is much harder to work out, HSE did seem to say it wasn’t advised. But a lot of shops have a lot of frozen and chilled food and need the air con to keep the area cooler so the fridges and freezers dont overhear

Overheat

Dreading the aircon at work in my office. Somebody's always ill, yet the aircon blasts around the office.

I am surprised not to hear more on this wrt the current pandemic.

I bought an oximeter while ill. The oxygen levels in my blood are lower than average. I read that air con can impact your oxygen levels, in addition to circulating germs, drying out eyes and skin.

I'd prefer to just be able to open the window at work, but then the office aircon wars would resume.

It depends how well it is maintained and what kind of system it is. Anything that works as a fan will spread germs around. Something that sucks in cold air from outside will be safer than something that takes the air from inside and cools it.

The risk isn't fully understood so it would be safer not to use any kind of fan or air conditioner while the virus is still present, but equally this has knock-on effects. If someone is working in a hot environment they will be more likely to sweat, risking them wiping their face with their hands or their mask getting damp.

It seems to depend on the type of air conditioning unit. I can't seem to share it but there is a EU report published 2 days ago which you can find if you google. I'd be cautious too.

You are in the co op 10 minutes they are working a shift maybe the coop evaluated the risk and ran it for staff comfort?

Oh yeah cos that's fair on the staff.

Just found this advice from the HSE, but more confused now as it advocates using desk fans too!

www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/equipment-and-machinery/air-conditioning-and-ventilation.htm

There was an article on another thread about coronavirus spread in a restaurant which circulated via the air conditioning.

That was debunked that came out wuhan that it was spread by a diner sitting in front of an aircon.

I work in a large retail store, which reopened this week. We have air con which sucks in air from outside. If it wasn't on, we would be unable to work as the temperature would breach health and safety standards.

Far more dangerous are the customers who swarm around staff members and other customers, ignoring requests to keep 2 metres away despite very clear and plentiful signage and floor markings, sneezing and coughing without covering their faces.

I've literally just said this! Today is my second day back at work, in the canteen tables are distanced but the air con is on

I work in a large retail store, which reopened this week. We have air con which sucks in air from outside. If it wasn't on, we would be unable to work as the temperature would breach health and safety standards.

There is no maximum temperature where you cant work. The ward I work on regularly exceeds 30 degrees in summer, it's a secure ward so the windows only open a small crack. We have no aircon. Its hellish in our thick uniform and even worse now we are all in masks and visors all day. Every summer st least one person tries to get the union involved about the heat and every summer it comes back to it not being financially viable to install aircon and there being no health and safety breach.

@HandsOffMyRights
Thanks for the link. My workplace have updated their risk assessment to say fans can't be used and our windows open about 2 inches. I'll send them the link and see if they'll revise it. Everything seems to be risk assessing covid - what about people (like me) who get migranes in heat

We have switched our aircon at work to taking in fresh air rather than recirculating. The risk is much reduced. CIBSE have produced guidance on this, I believe.

I can tell you first hand that shops get extremely hot without air con, especially during high summer temperatures - think every single customer complaining, others walking out as the heat was headache inducing, and someone fainted. One of my colleagues felt nauseous and threw up on the shop floor, the rest of us were sweating profusely to the point that a random customer spoke to management regarding our safety/well being. I could get away with wearing a Calvin Klein bralet as a top as the heat was that intense. Can’t remember what the temperature was but know it would have been illegal to transport cattle at.

Our air con broke & was out of action for a week. This was in a large central London store with v high footfall, we probably had similar numbers that supermarkets get. It just isn’t feasible to turn it off. Fixtures (particularly lights) emit high heat without air con.

There may be no maximum temperature, but employers are legally obliged to keep the temperature at a reasonable level - see here www.gov.uk/workplace-temperatures. And 38 degrees, in our store, with no windows that can be opened, is not reasonable.

I can help with this! This is what I do for a living.
So aircon units that suck in air entirely from outside and blow it into a room are great - essentially, current guidance in the UK is that the more fresh air in a room, the better. Aircon units that take the air from inside a space and heat/cool it before blowing it back into the space (a recirculating system) are bad and should not be used (with the exception of where the coil inside the unit can be heated to a very high temperature periodically which will destroy the virus).

The aim is to have a very high air change rate, so if someone does cough, the virus in the air becomes very diluted, very quickly.

Regardless, people shouldn't be sitting/standing in the airflow path, because as @HowLongCanICallitBabyWeight says, it could carry from one person to another.

There's a really helpful (albeit slightly technical) summary of current guidance here:
www.thebesa.com/media/837893/besa-guidance-vg002-v2-28th-may.pdf

@HandsOffMyRights, the guidance really advocates for open windows instead of mechanical systems right now, so if you want to bring up the argument, now is a good time. However, if you are having issues at work with itchy eyes, etc, it suggests that your systems aren't being maintained (or weren't designed properly in the first place) and it is something you could raise with HR.

Sorry, clarification to the above...

(with the exception of where the coil inside the unit can be heated to a very high temperature periodically which will destroy the virus that has recirculated through the unit and collected on the coil ).

Hospitals aren't allowed to use air con or fans, so other places shouldn't be surely?

We seem to be doing ok managing Covid in Dubai, with all our air con! But then here there's tons of testing, compulsory masks and stringent fines for breaking the rules...

there is no one single answer to this. ventilation and aircon can be good but it depends on lots of factors many of which are unique to a particular setting and scenario.

So you want the staff to swelter, become dehydrated and possibly faint?

I worked in a Debenhams one summer when the air con broke. It was a sauna. We were there for eight hours. At least 4 or 5 of us fainted at some point over than month (me included in the fitting rooms while helping a customer.