To not understand why some people dont eat meat free meals

[reducingfootprint]

I do not call myself vegetarian but i eat meat rarely for health reasons (bowel cancer is common in the family) but i am happy to prepare it as my dh eats meat but enjoys meat free meals around 4 times a week. DC also eat meat free around 4 times a week. My siblings and their partners are also part time vegetarians and pre covid we all enjoyed getting together for meat free feasts.

When DM comes over, she refuses to eat anything without meat. Butternut squash soup? Needs bacon.
Halloumi fajitas? Needs beef.
Goats cheese and onion omelette? Needs chicken.
Plowmans salad? Needs ham.

AIBU to think ffs one meal without meat wont kill you!

@Fluffybutter but I still don’t understand some of the militant vegans wanting to eat something with the texture and taste of meat if they’re so against meat

This question has such an obvious answer that I always assume anyone who asks it is either very stupid, or being deliberately disingenuous. You can let me know which you are.

I didn’t stop eating meat because I didn’t like the taste or texture. I did it because I couldn’t make peace with animals being killed for my benefit. If I can get something that mimics the taste and texture without necessitating the death of an animal, why wouldn’t I want that?

As a vegan friend once told me, vegans eat meat substitutes for the same reason people use dildos. Looks the same, feels the same, fills a hole, but no hearts are broken in the process.

I got a message from DDs friends mum last year to ask about burgers she'd had at our house. Apparently she'd liked them loads more than their burgers. She asked if they were lamb or beef. They were portobello mushrooms stuffed with goats cheese! It's just finding the right food.

@Inkpaperstars I don't experience horror at knowing I'm eating a previously living thing, but I am aware of it. My mother is vegan and was my entire childhood, my father is not and we were not brought up vegan either. But mum made a very deliberate effort to ensure we knew where our meat came from. This included hand rearing lambs in the garden then taking them to the slaughter house before cutting them up and putting them in freezer.

Unfortunately for my mother, I was not put off by this, and started slaughtering our hand reared chicks myself. After I started to bring the lambs home un-beheaded and unskinned she stopped us rearing them. But I used them for animal anatomy in 6th form - it did me well, I later became a doctor!

So I have full knowledge, and full respect for exactly HOW the animal gets on my plate - including the intensive farming and battery farming styles etc.

Vegans generally don't like me though, as they seem the to believe that if I knew what went on for the animal to get to my plate, I wouldn't be able to eat it. I'm evidence that it isn't true of everyone.

Meat free meals are fantastic. The meat free options for meat lovers are also amazing - beyond meat, oomph...products that taste as good without the suffering. I'm typing this from my very rural home listening to sheep and lambs screaming with distress. I can hear their voices breaking and getting hoarse as they've been separated from their family. Livesock farming is pretty shit. Even the better welfare farms - still crap and outdated. Roll on cultured meat as inside the next 20 years most meat will be lab grown thankfully. Its a really fascinating subject to read up on if anyone is interested. Farmers need to find ways to diversify now, as the change away from animal farming is an unstoppable one.

This included hand rearing lambs in the garden then taking them to the slaughter house before cutting them up and putting them in freezer.

I don’t dislike you, and I respect that you’re making your decision from an informed position, but I personally find this borderline psychopathic. If you were talking about a puppy you had hand reared, people would be horrified. I just can’t see past the arbitrary distinction between a dog and a sheep this kind of attitude necessitates.

SadSisters I agree, that it is a very arbitrary distinction between certain animals. But I come from the perspective of, if as a culture we ate dogs, I would be able to distinguish between my pet dog and my food dog. I would mentally be able to separate my relationship between the two. For me, the lambs were always destined for food (though my mother never told us this was the plan).

I also do not agree that there should be a distinction between 'animals which can be eaten' and 'animals which should not be eaten' beyond those which are endangered or would make us ill.

I'm definitely not a psychopath though!

OP, YABveryU

I still don’t understand some of the militant vegans wanting to eat something with the texture and taste of meat if they’re so against meat.

Someone can be vegan and accept or even agree, that meat tastes nice or has a nice texture. All that are saying is that they do not believe that their right to taste and texture outweighs the other animals right to a life free from suffering and death.

I do not get how people cannot grasp that.

Similarly, the vegans who state a vegan diet is automatically healtheir than omni diet are also deluded. A diet of processed meats isn't healthy, but neither is a diet of oreos and chips. A diet which is high in fresh foods and low in processed foods and trans fats is healthier, whether it contains meat or not.

sad sister I agree.

I don't understand how some people can cherish a pet, yet raise another animal (often just as intelligent and friendly), then send it for slaughter and eat it. This is why I am vegan. Slaughter is never humane.

I think a lot of people dissociate from the reality (which is easy to do when most meat comes in plastic containers from the supermarket).

Eating meat is also terrible from the environment and for health. I'm surprised at the number of posters here that think that meat is a healthy option.

They value a balanced diet

Some people like eating lots of meat and it is their choice, that is true.

Doesn't make it a good choice.

Lots of people like to smoke and it's their decision to do so, doesn't make it any less of a bad idea.

I'm not a vegetarian and don't think eating animals is inherently unethical, but if you can actually look at the state of agriculture, the treatment of those animals and what it is doing to the planet and continue to gleefully chomp down meat at every meal, I do seriously question your morals.

I just can’t see past the arbitrary distinction between a dog and a sheep this kind of attitude necessitates.

The distinction comes on 2 levels.

Firstly (for me, and lots of people I've spoken to about it) a dog is a carnivore, as is a cat ect. I don't eat anything that eats other living things (bar fish that eat krill and even then I don't eat the big fish like sword fish that eat proper fish as opposed to microscopic ones) because I've read all about toxins becoming more concentrated the higher up the food chain you go. But in cultures that do eat dogs I don't judge them from in on a moral level of that could be someone's pet, I just politely decline if offered it from a health POV.

Secondly it's about about the 'intention' when you get and raise the animal. When people buy and rear dogs they do so to adopt them into their families, they raise them akin to children and allow themselves to love them. When you buy and raise a lamb or chicken or pig for food you know you're intentions from the start. You respect the animal but don't learn to or allow yourself to love it. The purpose isn't for it to become another member of the family but to be food. And there's nothing barbaric about this (provided you treat them well and with respect), it's essentially just the food chain, it's evolution, we may be able to survive on grains and pulses but naturally we have evolved to eat both meat and plant products. And this applies to any animal, I'd happily have a rabbit as a pet whilst also eating rabbit separately. I wouldn't eat my rabbit because it's an adopted part of my family and to be able to break that bond is a little psychotic but to eat an arbitrary rabbit is very different to me and many people. Although I do respect the people that can't seperate that and so choose not to eat rabbits or animal I personally don't agree and so continue to eat what I like whilst not forcing it on anyone else.

@covidco

Do you think some people are just squeamish and others not, or can you get used to it a bit? Would you have any tips for someone wanting to be able to eat meat occasionaly without focusing on the origins?

@Inkpaperstars

I'd probably start with something that doesn't resemble 'meat' particularly, such as mince and have it in a familiar dish (bologenese, lasagna, cottage pie, curry whatever). I'd eat it either in front of the TV whilst watching something interesting or whilst you have an interesting diner conversation. Do a bit of 'mindless eating' that we all try to avoid!

And yes @Inkpaperstars some people are squeemish (like my mum) other are not (like me). I think it's just different sorts of people.

Secondly it's about about the 'intention' when you get and raise the animal. When people buy and rear dogs they do so to adopt them into their families, they raise them akin to children and allow themselves to love them. When you buy and raise a lamb or chicken or pig for food you know you're intentions from the start. You respect the animal but don't learn to or allow yourself to love it. The purpose isn't for it to become another member of the family but to be food. And there's nothing barbaric about this (provided you treat them well and with respect), it's essentially just the food chain, it's evolution, we may be able to survive on grains and pulses but naturally we have evolved to eat both meat and plant products. And this applies to any animal, I'd happily have a rabbit as a pet whilst also eating rabbit separately. I wouldn't eat my rabbit because it's an adopted part of my family and to be able to break that bond is a little psychotic but to eat an arbitrary rabbit is very different to me and many people. Although I do respect the people that can't seperate that and so choose not to eat rabbits or animal I personally don't agree and so continue to eat what I like whilst not forcing it on anyone else.

I absolutely understand that this is how many people view animals. The issue I have with it is that it’s a completely arbitrary distinction. The animal doesn’t feel any better about going to slaughter because the humans who raised it always intended it to be thus. For them, it’s as traumatic to lose their life as it would be for a pet dog. So I understand why people maintain this cognitive dissonance, but to me it’s nothing more than a comforting lie and I can’t make myself believe it (even though it would be a lot more convenient if I could).

I absolutely understand that this is how many people view animals. The issue I have with it is that it’s a completely arbitrary distinction. The animal doesn’t feel any better about going to slaughter because the humans who raised it always intended it to be thus. For them, it’s as traumatic to lose their life as it would be for a pet dog. So I understand why people maintain this cognitive dissonance, but to me it’s nothing more than a comforting lie and I can’t make myself believe it (even though it would be a lot more convenient if I could).

There's nothing actually 'traumatic' about dying quickly, painlessly and unexpectedly. This is where the high welfare debate comes into it. Yes obviously for low welfare animals the process of being shipped to slaughter all pushed together into the back of a truck is traumatic. But to die quickly and painlessly without the dread of the expectation of it isn't cruel (in a similar way to the way that we put pets down, quickly, painlessly). Once is dead the animal doesn't feel anything about it's death, it's just dead, as long as it didn't suffer on its way to getting there I see no issue with it. I think the psychopathic thing comes into it when someone could eat an animal they loved as a pet.

Not really traumatic for the animal to die...it’s dead..not like it can continue to feel once it’s already dead

They are two different points of view and I completely respect yours and would never try to make, coerce or trick you into eating meat. But equally those who are aware and buy high welfare meat shouldn't feel vilified for 'traumatising the animals' when there's nothing actually traumatic about humane, high welfare meat slaughter.

Thanks @covidco, will give it a go! Yes mindless is good

SadSisters I don't think people believe that animals raised for meat are happier to be killed. I think it is about the person making the decision to kill (or eat) the animal and what they are happier with. Being emotionally removed from your food makes it easier to kill them. I personally don't really have a distinction - I love my cats, but they are animals, just like the food on my plate and I view them as such.

I also agree with PP who says you can't be a true animal lover and eat them. I can believe in animal welfare rights though and believe that animals should be treated well up until the point of slaughter. And that slaughter should be as fast and efficient as possible. I don't want them tortured (which is different to being killed).

@covidco Says it so eloquently here

I can believe in animal welfare rights though and believe that animals should be treated well up until the point of slaughter. And that slaughter should be as fast and efficient as possible. I don't want them tortured (which is different to being killed).

I do think you can 'loce' animals and still eat them though because I believe 'love' is a scale. I love my rabbit and my mum but you're can damn bet if the house was on fire I'd save my mum. People can love their dogs but once they have a child (if the dog shows aggressive tendencies towards to child) give it away because they love their child more. Lots of people (mostly in America) claim to 'love all gods children' but still believe in the death penalty. I believe I can love spending time with animals, playing with and cuddling pets, riding horses, donating to conservations and groups that campaign for welfare standards, whilst still choosing to eat high welfare meat. Because I do love animals but also recognise the food chain and realise it's better for my health to eat them and I love myself more.

@Waxonwaxoff - It's not that expensive to eat meat every day if you are a small family. I spend about £12 on meat and fish weekly (just me and 7yo DS at home) and we get 6 meals out of that. 4 chicken breasts cost £4, that lasts us for 2 dinners. 500g of lean mince costs £3, that lasts us for another 2 dinners if I bulk it out in a chilli or a bolognese. Then I buy 2 salmon fillets for me for £3 and 6 good quality sausages for another £3 - for DS as he hates fish

That is poor quality (supermarket) meat full of water and the rest. I don't want to judge or be harsh as it's needs must and all that. Been there myself.
But you can buy 6 chicken breast for 12.- at my local farm shop- high animal welfare, no water and it tastes of chicken.
That makes 2 meals for 2 adults and 2 DC.
Would you ever consider using better quality meat and make the rest up in veggie meals? Like pasta & tomato sauce, potato bake, chickpeas & lentils curry with vegetables.... ?

when there's nothing actually traumatic about humane, high welfare meat slaughter.

If you have never watched footage from a U.K. slaughterhouse then I suggest you do. Or don’t, because it’s very distressing, but at least then accept that it is a very traumatic process.

My view is that people who eat no animal can consider themselves generally animal lovers.
People who eat meat or dairy (and dairy is worse for health and for animal welfare than meat, its a horrifically cruel practice for the animals and contains some real nasties for the human body) can call themselves pet lovers.