to think people overthink hygiene and germs and this is quite a new thing?

[Chicchicchicchiclana]

and also quite harmful to health?

I realise there's quite a fine line here and if we turned back the clock 50+ years then we would see an awful lot more children (in particular) being seriously harmed or dying of childhood diseases. So thank goodness for vaccines! But then those illnesses (like measles) didn't spread because of dirt in the environment, they were just nasty bugs that spread through human contact.

But now I see people worrying needlessly about the dirt in carpets, imagined dirt on things that haven't been bleached or wiped with an anti-bacterial wipe, not buying cakes at bake sales because "someone else" has made them, complaining about staff in food shops not wearing gloves, fretting about food that is on it's sell-by date, buying a thing called "laundry cleanser" I mean EH?

This is probably a question for non-Covid times. But, covid aside, aibu?

All the evidence seems to show that mild exposure to dirt and bacteria is beneficial to the immune system in the long run. Suffer some mild but irritating illnesses when young and build your immune system against the more serious ones.

The best thing to boost a child's immune system is to have a pet.

We used to happily let DS craw into the dogs bed and even splash in her water, never minded him digging in the dirt or whatever BUT seeing someone on FB admit she comes into the house from shopping/travelling on the bus/ a day out and make her DC a sandwich /the family meal without washing her hands made me

Oh is that true? How interesting.

I think people have no idea of the difference between bacteria, virus, or fungus and what is beneficial and harmful. Kills 99.9% of bacteria does my head in, as does "antibac". So lazy.

I have to admit some of the over-zealous hygiene procedures in place now make me worry that we are storing up problems for the future.

Covid aside I do agree with you that there is such a thing as being too clean. The immune system thrives on being regularly challenged and can end up being quite underactive if it never encounters new germs. One of our neighbours is hygienic to the point of paranoia. Everything is bleached, antibacced and disinfected to within an inch of its life and she and her daughter catch every cold, sick bug and stomach upset going. I'm convinced its because she lives in such a sterile environment.

Covid of course is a whole new ball game.

Yanbu & the whole mrs hinch craze is just making things worse. Spraying a bed with antibacterial spray every morning is ridiculous on several levels imo.

Covid-19 seems to be a once in a generation or more freak virus and they come along from time to time. But it is unusual.

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut probably because the things that cause the infections in her house are viruses and atibaccing them is futile. I wish we taught basic biology and infection control at school. COVID isn't a new ball game at all, compared to chicken pox or measles it's not even particularly contagious, its effects are serious but there's nothing special about it amongst other viruses.

I was reading a while back that getting a dog (we have one hence reading about this) is good for the health and one of the reasons is that they bring germs into the house which boosts the immune system.

What worries me about MrsH and her followers is that they will be shortening their lives, and those of their children, due to over-exposure to seriously toxic chemicals.

I agree broadly but as one of a group of colleagues who all got a horrendous bout of gastroenteritis after eating a cake one of us bought at a village fete, I still don’t eat anything made by someone whose hand and kitchen hygiene I don’t know and trust.

I absolutely get the rage at 'kills 99.9% of bacteria'. These cleaning companies make their fortune painting bacteria as some sort of invisible killer when the truth is there are varying degrees of bacteria and we need it to live.

I wipe my surfaces down after use and probably bleech the bathroom once a week. That's about it.

I have some friends who live in a 1 bed apartment and last time I was there I counted 9 bottles of bleach in the bathroom. I've actually only seen them once in the last 18 months because guess what? They're always bloody ill.

I have started opening public doors with my elbow/arm during covid but hope this is a habit I will be able to shake post covid because frankly it's a ridiculous way to live.

I worry too that covid is going to cause all sorts of hyper hygienic behaviour that will end up being detrimental to our health and immunity.

It depends. I think Mrs Hinch & co are ridiculous but my DM, for example, doesn’t practise good enough kitchen hygiene. The house is clean, bathrooms clean, kitchen looks fine but she is awful about cloth hygiene, cleaning the fridge etc and I’m sure that’s why she gets the odd stomach bug. I’ve never had one since leaving home, as a child I probably had one or two a year. I’m not a hygiene freak, but I think kitchen surfaces, chopping boards, cloths etc should be as clean as possible.

Yes, Covid aside, I totally agree. Children brought up on farms reputedly have the strongest immune systems.

I am really, really particular about certain aspects of hygiene, but not bothered about others. For example, I'm very vigilant about handwashing and washing up and I do most laundry on 40 or 60°, as I don't feel it gets clean enough at 30° (although I wear most items of clothing at least twice or three times too). But I rarely use antibacterial spray and am a firm believer in hot water and soap cleans most things well enough.

I agree @CremeEggThief

I use anti bac spray at home and wash most things at 50° , however I trust my senses about food and would eat out of date milk/cheese/yoghurt/biscuits/bread etc if it looked and smelled ok (not meat or fish) i wear some clothes more than once (obvs new underwear) and use towels more than once. I never share food (without cutting and putting on a separate plate) or eat kids left overs. I regularly wipe the door handle and doorbell at the moment but I dont wipe or quarantine shopping.

I have a friend who (to me) seems v ott about hygeine and shes always getting cold and bugs.

my DM, for example, doesn’t practise good enough kitchen hygiene. The house is clean, bathrooms clean, kitchen looks fine but she is awful about cloth hygiene, cleaning the fridge etc and I’m sure that’s why she gets the odd stomach bug.
My Ddad was like this. He used to think a damp cloth was sufficient for all cleaning but I'm not convinced it wasnt the same damp cloth that did the kitchen and bathroom and no idea how often it was washed.🤢🤢 (and that would probably at 30°)

I think some people go overboard, I personally hate all the hype over zoflora, don’t think its nice at at, can’t see the appeal and many people’s pets have been poisoned by it after licking their pads after walking on a floor cleaned with it.

In many ways I think people’s hygiene is rotton, when I use public loos, I’ve noticed around 8/10 people do not wash their hands, which I find totally replusive and gross. I hope this has made people more aware of washing their hands and I hope it continues after covid has gone.

Some people are strange though, my mil is neat and tidy and has a clean home, but will use the same dishcloth for days and then it’s washed at 30, I use a dishcloth for a job eg wiping sides and cooker and table after tea then it goes on a 60 wash with towels, I must go through at least 6 dishcloths daily. She also washes dishes and pans etc in the same washing up water, by the time it’s all done after a big family meal the washing up water is like soup and not very warm, I wash things with fairy and a scour pad under running water, I don’t use a washing up bowl, most things go in the dishwasher.

Oh. Am amazed at a case of gastroenteritis from a cake? Cake is baked in an oven at a high heat so where did the bug come from? More likely passed between people who had been in close proximity to each other.

And a gastro bug is nasty but generally not life threatening. If the answer to never having a gastro bug is never going out then I'm willing to take the risk (chronic emetophobe that I am).

It’s meeting somewhere in the middle. Not being ott with cleaning and hygiene but not being the opposite. I know someone who rarely cleans her house and she thinks it’s healthy for her children. Living in a pig sty is not hygienic. Her kid’s are always ill. When I say there is no hygiene, there really isn’t. Literally doesn’t clean a thing.

I am a bit of a hygiene freak but I do let my children play outside in mud and we also have a dog who sleeps on our sofa and the kids pet her all the time and don’t necessarily wash their hands after (we know our dog is pretty clean). Good hygiene in the home and hand hygiene makes me feel in control so I’m always cleaning and sanitising things.. I worry about All sorts of bacteria and viruses. Like I said the kids are allowed to play out in the mud but they must wash their hands when they get in and are bathed daily.

It's not a new thing!

The most paranoid germphobe I know is my grandmother. She is in her 90s now but has always had very extreme ideas around "germs". Everything in her house was spotless and detolled. Dishcloths and teatowels were banned. She was horrified by me and my sister sharing ice creams etc when we were kids. Really disapproved of the "5 second rule" and fell out with my dad after she witnessed me dusting of and eating an unwrapped babybell that I dropped on the lawn.
She wouldn't eat cakes from a cake stall and was even fussy about which store bought cake she'd eat! (Eg a newspaper story from decades ago about a problem with a single product from a certain shop put her off the shop for life).
I don't think she was unique in her generation for having these views (even though they may not be commonplace).

So I voted yabu just because I don't think anxiety over dirt is a new thing.

Perhaps the quirks of strangers are more visible to us now thanks to social media etc.

I work with a woman in her fifties who says this very thing all the time. I used to nod along, until I had to share close quarters with her and realised just how lax her standards of hygiene were.

She puts food - ham, cheese, beetroot, butter - into the fridge completely uncovered. She'll buy foods containing raw meat, cream, etc on her lunch break and then leave them sitting on the table until six pm. (We do have a fridge, she just doesn't bother to put her food in it until it's already open.) She puts food into a biscuit tin / bread bin and then leaves the lid off it - obviously flies get in, the bread gets stale and the biscuits go soft. But not once in all the time I've known her has she ever seemed to comprehend the importance of an air-tight container in keeping food fresh. She also blows her nose and puts the tissue back up her sleeve for use again later. There isn't a shortage of tissue! There's loads of it! And yes, she does know that the coronavirus spreads through sneezing and droplets. She just refuses to put two and two together and see how unhygienic she's being. She also digs into her ear with communal pen caps. She keeps pens and hairbrushes in with the office knives and forks!

I feel very differently listening to her complaints now I've observed her first hand. The irony is, for all she believes she's building up some great tolerance to germs, she has a constant dicky stomach.

She's diagnosed herself with IBS.

Many years ago a friend spoke to her GP about her son as he refused to wash at all or clean his teeth. ( he has high functioning autism) He had a bath once a week under duress. The GP asked how often he had upset tummy...never...was sick..never. The GP said we are all too clean and not to worry. He is now 30 with no fillings and is rarely ill.