To think that a 7pm check-in is too late when you have young kids

[sqirrelfriends]

I woke up to an email this morning from the company I booked a holiday cottage with for next month.

For corona reasons:

7pm check in (instead of 3pm)
9am check out (instead of 10)
Removal of all high risk items (they mentioned board games and the DVD player but I would imagine it's going to be barren)

We would have to drive about 4 hours to get there with a young child, 7pm just seems too late to me to check in, and equally 9am is too early to check out, especially with all the extra stuff we would need to bring. Am I being unreasonable to think it would never take 10 hours to clean a cottage? And would you be cancelling?

Received a similar email yesterday. Very unhappy about the 7pm check in and yes I do think we should get a refund for this change. The cottage is very expensive anyway.

You do all realise it isn't the homeowner's choice to make these changes?

Don't like it? Don't go.

Don't like it? Don't go.

I think that’s exactly what the OP has decided.

We always take our own games so that wouldn’t bother me. But no DVD player would be awful.

7pm check in too late - could just about cope with 6pm but I would be expecting at least a refund of some sort for the inconvenience.

I would rather check in at 9am the next day and get a refund for one nights stay.

I’ve just received the 7pm/9am email. I’m certainly not paying the full amount - they have changed the T and Cs unilaterally imo and that’s breaking part of the contract. I would not have booked the cottage originally if these had been the times stated. It’s not just 4 hours - it’s making the start and end of the holiday more stressful and difficult and quite frankly, I’m not paying for that. I’m telling them that I’ll arrive the next day before lunch and leave a day early In the late afternoon. I’ll say I’ll pay a seventh less which I think is quite fair. If they don’t like it, they can refund my deposit and relet it ( which will be super easy). They are running a business and Covid has caused them problems - well tough, they are not alone. There are examples of owners behaving incredibly well but many stories of owners who somehow feel they should be able to pass their problems onto the customers. I’m quite prepared to fight this partly because of the bloody arrogance of the email which assumed I’d be some passive participant of a cash machine.

I’m a member of Which Legal so am going to contact them on Monday about this as well for their take on it.

Bourdic, you do realise they are not making up rules to inconvenience you?

I'm largely fully booked for July, Aug and Sept, with just a few short gaps I could fill (I offer any-day start dates so gaps are inevitable). I've already said on this thread that I intend proactively contacting any guests where I don't have a same-day changeover to give them a standard (3 pm/10 am) check-in/check-out, but I sure as hell won't extend that courtesy to anyone complaining to my agency and asking for a discount!

For the hard of thinking, I'll repeat again that these check-in rules and the extra cleaning are (a) mandated - the owner has no choice (b) will cost the owner money and (c) are for YOUR safety!

Unbelievable.

the bloody arrogance of the email which assumed I’d be some passive participant of a cash machine

I'll bite. I'm interested to know how exactly you think owners are profiting from doing the extra cleaning that necessitates this change to check-in times?

@Bourdic

I’m a member of Which Legal so am going to contact them on Monday about this as well for their take on it.

Unbelievable. It's like the last 12 weeks never happened for you. Any lawyer will tell you to piss off. You're lucky you're not one of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands who've lost their entire holiday. And you're whinging about five hours.

For the hard of thinking, I'll repeat again that these check-in rules and the extra cleaning are (a) mandated - the owner has no choice (b) will cost the owner money and (c) are for YOUR safety!

Exactly.

I simply don’t see how in what world the paying customer is expected to lose out. They are running a business, sometimes times are hard. Tough. It’s not my problem .

I’m not whinging about a few hours - I’m complaining about spoiling the beginning and end of a holiday. The owners can solve it easily by reducing all stays by one night with a corresponding reduction in rent. There’s been plenty of government help for businesses like this and in general, normal times, their tax position is very generous too.

Here’s some facts about all the tax advantages normally available and add to that all of the COVID help from the Treasury. I’ll save my tears for others
www.sykescottages.co.uk/blog/furnished-holiday-let-tax-guide/

Tbh Id be grateful for the opportunity to do pretty much anything and go pretty much anywhere right now. Fit and healthy and on hols with my family I wouldn't moan about the check in and out times at all.
People in Wales and Scotland are still very restricted on what they can do (hope you aren't going there as that wouldn't be fair)
Id quit fussing and enjoy it. I don't drive so am entirely limited to places I can get to on my feet for what could be months and months. Id snap up the chance for a week elsewhere.

@Bourdic

I’m not whinging about a few hours - I’m complaining about spoiling the beginning and end of a holiday. The owners can solve it easily by reducing all stays by one night with a corresponding reduction in rent. There’s been plenty of government help for businesses like this and in general, normal times, their tax position is very generous too.

Oh god, such bullshit. I'm self employed in the tourism industry and I have no idea if I'm going to last until next season, with the constantly moving goalposts, lack of clarity and now the withdrawal of the August support

For the hard of thinking, I'll repeat again that these check-in rules and the extra cleaning are (a) mandated - the owner has no choice (b) will cost the owner money and (c) are for YOUR safety!

Are they mandated or are they guidelines though? There's another owner upthread who seems to suggest she's been told that extremes don't need to be gone to and check in times should remain broadly the same.

I'm more than happy to sign a 'I'll take the standard cleaning and normal check in' disclaimer to avoid a late check in as I really don't think extremes are necessary. If I was worried I was going to catch COVID from a holiday cottage I probably wouldn't be going away to start with!

@HolidayLetter

OP, there's another thread about holiday lets at the moment to which I have made several lengthy contributions.

New 'Covid-safe' guidelines for holiday lets recommend check-in at 4PM and check-out at 10AM in order to allow time for additional deep cleaning.

Owners are being asked to remove decorative cushions and throws, along with hard copy guest information (as this tends to be regularly handled). We are providing it online instead - though in fact, this is what I've been doing for a couple of years now as folders etc tend to look grubby after a very short time.

I am not removing anything else. Games etc are in their usual cupboard; if guests would like to use them, they are very welcome to. If they would rather not, that is of course absolutely fine! The same is true of books.

I would try to negotiate with the owner/agent about the times. I suspect you wouldn't get a refund if you asked for one on the basis of the changed times.

@NailsNeedDoing Please be aware that not all people who have holiday lets are CFs who are only thinking of their profit. I, for one, have had no income at all since March, as holiday lets are my only source of income. In fact, I'm making a massive loss which I can't afford to make, as I still have all the outgoings and nothing coming in.

Please don't judge an entire sector based on your views of a few profiteers.

Here we are.

Maybe some owners are taking guidelines as mandated, which is causing the problems.

Or is it too few cleaners? Have people tried to recruit more cleaners to help solve this, if it's that problem? Or are they just saying they can't / won't?

@Bourdic

I’m not whinging about a few hours - I’m complaining about spoiling the beginning and end of a holiday. The owners can solve it easily by reducing all stays by one night with a corresponding reduction in rent. There’s been plenty of government help for businesses like this and in general, normal times, their tax position is very generous too.

I don't think you understand how the cottage letting business works.

If you sign up to one of the booking companies if you basically have to stick to their T&Cs and often have to use their cleaning staff. If they say check in is on a Friday at X time then that's what your cottage offers fir the period of time you are signed up with them. You sign a contract to have all your bookings made through them for a set period of time and they take a set percentage of commission.

For this we also get advertising and we don't have to handle our own booking system or financial transactions.

Our cottages are a side income to the farm/ farm diversification and make use of redundant farm buildings. We aren't making mega money from them after our costs but it means we don't have all our eggs in one basket.

Last year we switched from one company to another and as a result had to change our check in day for a Saturday to a Friday to meet their booking policy.

Our 'rep' visited yesterday to tell us about the changes and check that we intended to be compliant.

It's not the owners who are in control of these changes. They also aren't the ones in control of giving people refunds.

Yes there might be lots of people available to clean currently but you need people who are skilled and reliable and very trustworthy to clean holiday lets. They need to be made immaculate in a very short space of time and its not something everyone is able to do. The cottage cleaning business is a well oiled machine, suddenly that machine has been asked to do several extra steps. It's going to take longer.

Or is it too few cleaners? Have people tried to recruit more cleaners to help solve this, if it's that problem? Or are they just saying they can't / won't?

Our cleaners are a mother and daughter team employed by our letting company. One does upstairs while the other does downstairs. They are a well oiled machine and can get round several properties in the usual 10 - 4 slot . They now have to add in a few more steps at each property they clean. How is adding another cleaner into that situation realistically going to help, other than meaning they are less able to social distance from each other whilst cleaning?

The cottage cleaners aren't little housework fairies, they are real people at risk just like the people intending to stay in the cottages and they are quite skilled at what they do. They are in extremely high demand and not just randoms pulled in off the street.

How is adding another cleaner into that situation realistically going to help, other than meaning they are less able to social distance from each other whilst cleaning?

Because they'll be in a different property, not working with them. So the extra cleaning doesn't take any extra time in total, not per property.

The cottage cleaners aren't little housework fairies, they are real people at risk just like the people intending to stay in the cottages and they are quite skilled at what they do. They are in extremely high demand and not just randoms pulled in off the street.

I'm aware they're not bloody fairies. Stop being daft. But every cleaner starts somewhere and, frankly, I (as a non-career cleaner) clean better than some examples I've experienced! Why would you pull randoms off the street instead of advertising and interviewing etc? Maybe that's where you're going wrong.

Maybe that's where you're going wrong

again, as I explained above, not us, we don't employ them directly we have to use the ones the letting company employ and have no control over when they come or who comes.

In the vast majority if situations the letting companies are the ones who have changed the check in/out times, the letting companies are the ones that manage the cleaners, the letting companies are the ones who have your money and the contract with you, not the owners.

[quote Bourdic]Here’s some facts about all the tax advantages normally available and add to that all of the COVID help from the Treasury. I’ll save my tears for others
www.sykescottages.co.uk/blog/furnished-holiday-let-tax-guide/[/quote]
Bourdic, it is quite right that Furnished Holiday Lets have tax advantages as compared with 'ordinary' rental properties.

However: the pension advantages are mostly irrelevant as very few owners of FHLs have enough spare money to contribute to a pension; on the whole, our FHLs are a bricks and mortar pension fund. Secondly, they do also have massively higher outgoings, and are much harder work than letting properties on an AST, which I have done in the past. I run my own holiday lets and don't use an agency or a cleaner. If you do it all yourself, it is a full-time job for most of the year bar January.

COVID help from the Treasury for owners of FHLs has consisted of a one-off tax-free £10,000 payment. I am massively grateful for this, because I could not have survived without it. However, my income from March - September would normally be significantly higher than this, and I would also have the knowledge that I would be pretty fully booked until well into 2021. As it is, I haven't had a single booking since the lockdown started, so am facing months and months without any income at all once the £10,000 has run out.

My calendar was completely full until October before lockdown. Every single guest has cancelled. I have given every single one a full refund (bar the one family who asked to reschedule their trip for a year later). I could have kept their deposits, according to the contract I have with them, but goodwill is worth a huge amount in terms of possible future bookings.

Owners of FHLs don't normally qualify for benefits as their assets are generally above the threshold. Again, we are fortunate in this regard. However, it is worrying to have properties just sitting there while we are still paying for the utilities, broadband, service charges (in the case of my apartments), mortgages, etc, etc, with very little money coming in.

As a single parent with two children who are currently not at school, I find this very worrying.

I say this not to dismiss your own concerns, but just by way of context.

Whilst there may be government aid for small businesses of this industry in the UK. rest assured that in France, there is none.

I understand businesses take longer to clean but they need to clarify which hours the cleaner will actually be there and either ask you to check out earlier or arrive later or get more cleaners. More cleaners and raising the price of accommodations to cover the cost of extra cleaning will probably be the way ahead

We live around a 6/7 hour drive from Cornwall and usually leave the house at about 5am to avoid as much traffic as possible.

As a complete aside, why do people drive so far to Cornwall? is there literally no-where else closer to you? I'm baffled by the obsession with the place

Poor holiday let owners though, it's a few hours out of your holiday. I'm a bit surprised at posters saying just spend the day doing x,y,z - cafes, restaurants, attractions won't be open in the way we are used to. Take away isn't going to fill many hours especially if it's raining.