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AIBU?

To think it's ironic about Niqab and face coverings

616 replies

IsntItIronicDontYouThink · 18/06/2020 10:00

Just thought about this and how ironically, face coverings have become mandatory on public transports and it makes me think of Muslim women (Niqab wearing women specifically) who've had a hard time because of their face coverings to now find that everyone has to cover their faces (for different reasons yes but still ironic, isn't it?)

Googled to see if anyone else mentions this. Here's a piece I found about it (There's more but just picked this one).

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/face-mask-compulsory-muslim-women-12838585/amp/

OP posts:
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Cadent · 18/06/2020 13:25

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Do you think every single woman in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, to name a few, will agree with you?

What on Earth have those those countries got to do with a British woman choosing to wear the hijab in the UK? Muslim women aren’t responsible for what happens in other countries.

You are lucky you can have a choice. Many don't.

Ah yes the old ‘be grateful we give you a choice, stay in your box’ ploy.

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ChardonnaysPetDragon · 18/06/2020 13:26

Blimey, you really don't like what I have to tell you.

Is it so difficult to understand that your life as woman here is completely different to a the life of a woman in many other countries?

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Cadent · 18/06/2020 13:26

Again irrelevant Chardonnay.

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Flopjustwantscoffee · 18/06/2020 13:27

I think in summary...

Niquab and headscarves are WRONG because it is a clear sign the muslim/Asian men are dictating what clothes women wear. When everyone knows that it is in fact the job of white men to dictate what clothes women wear.

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KitKatKit · 18/06/2020 13:27

@ChardonnaysPetDragon to quote @Cadent

Ah yes the old ‘be grateful we give you a choice, stay in your box’ ploy

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Flopjustwantscoffee · 18/06/2020 13:27

(yayyy feminism)

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PlanDeRaccordement · 18/06/2020 13:31

@KitKatKit

Oh and, for every single poster who is so concerned about the rights of Muslim women in those oppressive Middle Eastern countries, what are you doing about it?

How are you using your power, your privilege, your voice, to help them?

You're not. You do not care about the rights of women of colour, that much is apparent. Any faux concern and outrage about women being 'forced' to wear the niqab is a fallacy.

At least we aren’t denying it happens and it is a problem. At least we are calling out liars who say these women do not exist.

As for what are we doing? I donate to Amnesty International who is on the forefront of helping real women either be acquitted or granted release from prison.

What are you doing KitKat? You have said that because you’ve not come across a Muslim woman forced to wear hijab/niqab that they do not exist? Then you lecture us and tell us to only listen to Muslim women who do wear it from choice. But no other women, women who do not have voices because they are not free. You are the awful one here.

It’s like claiming because you’ve never met a woman who’s been raped and because women have posted on the thread, yes I chose to have sex and I love it, that forced sex and rape does not exist

Do you see now how wrong you are?
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lovelifehope · 18/06/2020 13:31

When I first started wearing a mask I thought straight away about Muslim women, the ones who are forced to wear them because of men and the ones who wear them through personal choice because of their religion. I just felt a deep sympathy for those who wear them through fear, but the ones who wear them because of religious beliefs, i must admit I find it hard to understand. Surely God wouldn’t expect women to wear something so uncomfortable and claustrophobic. But then I don’t believe any religion should infringe our day to day lives.

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ChardonnaysPetDragon · 18/06/2020 13:31

Where was there any mention of stay in your box?

You have a choice, millions of women don't and can even go to prison for that, it's then who are put in their box, daily.

I don't see why, as a woman I should not have an option of what other women are made to wear and why I should;d be told to stay in my lane. In fact, isn't telling me to "stay in my lane" a way of putting me in my box? Nice.

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KitKatKit · 18/06/2020 13:32

@022828MAN

KitKatKit

PP is right though, if you've never spoken to a Muslim woman that has been treated badly because they refuse to wear a covering, then you SHOULD educate yourself. Refer to PP above and the punishements carried out

@022828MAN. Have you spoken to any Muslim women who have been treated badly because they refuse to wear a covering? Please, speak about your personal interactions with Muslim women who choose to cover themselves.

The links shared by a previous poster are incredibly sad. I could also find a similar number of links depicting any particular religious group / ethnicity as being oppressive, but that would miss the entire point of this conversation. What you consume in the media is a carefully curated stream of inflammatory content, designed to cause outrage, and if you haven't worked that out, you need a wake up call.

The difference is that I'm not sat here saying 'All white men are paedophiles' when I read about the potential suspects in the Madeline McCann case, for example.
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Yeahnahmum · 18/06/2020 13:34

There is a magnitude of difference between covering body parts for public safety versus covering body parts for female modesty required by an oppressive religion which can imprison or kill you if you do not obey.

^^this

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KitKatKit · 18/06/2020 13:35

@PlanDeRaccordement do you see how wrong you are

No, I don't think I am wrong thank you very much :)

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KitKatKit · 18/06/2020 13:36

@ChardonnaysPetDragon I don't see why, as a woman I should not have an option of what other women are made to wear

What? Why should you have an opinion (I'm guessing you meant to say), on what other women are wearing? How on earth is that any of your business?!?!

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022828MAN · 18/06/2020 13:37

KitKat

You are basing your views on Niqab on your own experiences of a British Muslim. We are a tiny island and the majority of countries niqab is worn in is via enforcement and control of females.

Are you denying this?

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amijustparanoidorjuststoned · 18/06/2020 13:38

Oooooh the racism on this thread is staggering....

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amijustparanoidorjuststoned · 18/06/2020 13:39

But OP I completely agree with you. Thought it from day 1.. especially when they made it compulsory to wear a face covering in France in certain public places!

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lovelifehope · 18/06/2020 13:40

Where’s the racism?

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Cadent · 18/06/2020 13:41

Same old shit every time

Muslims, stop your men from being terrorists
Muslims, stop women in other countries Dom wearing hijab/niqab

As if Muslims are one homogenous group. Racist bullshit.

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KitKatKit · 18/06/2020 13:44

@022828MAN the majority of countries niqab is worn in is via enforcement and control of females

It's like I'm banging my head against a brick wall in this place - Again, do you live in one of these countries? Are you there? Do you know local people? Did the majority of those people tell you that they wore the niqab under enforcement?

And referring to an earlier statement someone made about me 'lecturing' and 'telling us to only listen to Muslim women who do wear it from choice'- That is incorrect - I said 'Listen to the Muslim women here, on this thread who are speaking from experience'.

But even after you've heard from them, you still don't want to accept their POV.

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amijustparanoidorjuststoned · 18/06/2020 13:45

PP saying that they believe that Niqab/hijabs are OBVIOUSLY designed by men to oppress women, therefore in the eyes of a privileged white woman, it's very wrong. But here's the plot twist: It's nobody else's business, ESPECIALLY not white people, what other people from other religions wear. Which is why the French and Danish laws are controversial.

Have you stopped to consider some Muslim women actually feed comfortable being covered? You're right, some don't. But in the modern world it is very rare that women are forced to completely cover up. It is all down to individual choice.

Please educate yourselves. Remember you have all had a few lessons on white privilege recently!

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KitKatKit · 18/06/2020 13:47

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned. Thank you.

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PlanDeRaccordement · 18/06/2020 13:47

[quote Cadent]@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Do you think every single woman in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, to name a few, will agree with you?

What on Earth have those those countries got to do with a British woman choosing to wear the hijab in the UK? Muslim women aren’t responsible for what happens in other countries.

You are lucky you can have a choice. Many don't.

Ah yes the old ‘be grateful we give you a choice, stay in your box’ ploy.[/quote]
There are around 12 honour killings of Muslim women in Great Britain every year. And yes, some are killed for refusing to wear hijab/niqab.

Mum-of-three Rania , 25, was killed by her husband and buried in a suitcase close to the A19 in North Yorkshire in 2013. Ahmed Al-Khatib was jailed for a minimum of 20 years after court heard he subjected her to years of abuse believing she was becoming too Westernised. Syrian Rania had fled her home with her children but Al-Khatib lured her to a Greater Manchester flat.

A man who murdered his wife and mother of his three children in an honour killing because he believed she was becoming too Westernised was sentenced to serve a minimum of 20 years in jail today.

Ahmed Al-Khatib, 34, became jealous of his 25-year-old Syrian-born wife Rania Alayed when she enrolled at a local college and began studying English.

She gave up wearing traditional dress and made friends with fellow male students. Her husband had subjected her to years of physical and mental abuse eventually forcing her to flee the family home in January last year and seek sanctuary at a homeless refuge in a bid to start a new life.


Shaflia Ahmed was murdered by her parents who thought her Western ways brought shame on the family. The girl had a desire to wear western clothes like her friends. In the lead-up to her killing, at 17, she was the victim of extreme violence at her parents' hands as she resisted their attempts to control her. She repeatedly refused their calls for an arranged marriage and, in the eyes of her parents, thereby brought shame on the family.
The violence meted out by her parents escalated in the months before her death and she was frequently held down and beaten by both of them. Her teenage years were punctuated by household chores late at night at the house in Warrington, Cheshire, before she was allowed to begin her schoolwork.
It was an appalling life, but her parents were keen to keep up the appearance of normality and to hide the abuse from the school, social services and police. If awkward questions were asked, the Ahmeds would claim they were victims of racial prejudice.
Ultimately, Shafilea was killed for her resistance. According to her sister Alesha's evidence, her mother Farzana uttered the final command to her husband: "Let's finish it here", and they stuffed a plastic carrier bag into her mouth as she sat on a settee at the family home, blocking her airways and suffocating her to death.
When Shafilea went missing for the last time in September 2003, her parents did not report it to the authorities. It was a teacher at Great Sankey high school, Joanne Code, who overheard her younger siblings discussing her disappearance. Police were called in and a search was launched on 18 September – a week later. No effort was made by either parent to contact her by phone, unlike other occasions when she was missing and they had called her repeatedly. The officers who were called to the house said her father told them she had only taken western clothes and he seemed "disgusted" by this...

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bluebluezoo · 18/06/2020 13:47

I don’t agree with the concept of face coverings for religious reasons, especially when it only applies to one sex.

However as the saying goes, i will defend their right to wear them.

As a lip reader though, i cannot communicate with persons wearing face coverings. Which I think is sad for both me and then.

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022828MAN · 18/06/2020 13:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Cadent · 18/06/2020 13:49

@PlanDeRaccordement And yet I ask - what on Earth has that got to do with Muslim women who wear hijab/niqab?

Muslim women have enough shit to deal with, don’t make them responsible for the ills of society.

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