Cleaner Returning to Work

[mintandgold]

Hi, wonder if you can help with a moral dilemma regarding our cleaner returning to work.

We have paid our cleaner in full without question throughout lockdown at usual (expensive) rate which has added up to around £400 for hours which were not able to be worked. Happy to do so as we were still earning - albeit one of us had taken a pay cut to 80% in line with furloughed staff. Anyway we appreciate her and wanted to ensure she wasn't left without our payments through no fault of her own, we also hoped it would mean she would return when it was safe to do so.

I would now like her to return and have asked for five or six extra hours when she does in order to bring things back up to standard - 4 children, one full time key worker and one full time non key worker working from home mean that usual standards have been hard to maintain!

My question is if it is cheeky to expect that these extra few hours would be included in the hundreds of pounds already sent? This has not been offered and I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable to expect it? I know that others in the area stopped paying her as soon as lockdown began and I have no idea of her circumstances and if she was able to avail of any of the self employed grants etc.

Husband is aghast that we may get a bill for an extra £100+ and sees this as just asking her to work a few of the hours already paid before writing off the rest.

I can see his point but also haven't brought it up with cleaner as do have a feeling it may be unreasonable to expect this. Would be grateful for others opinions!

That wasn't you arrangement. You chose to pay her, there was not contract, either verbal or implied that she'd 'make up' those hours. She was basically furloughed by you still paying her- would you accept doing extra hours at work to 'make up' for you working at home when you go back to the office? If she offers, that's her choice. I would be giving her the full and agreed amount. The cost of cleaners in the U.K. is so flipping cheap anywa, if you have someone you like, accept that the payments were your choice and don't expect anything other than a good job done

I paid my cleaner even though she had only been with me for two weeks before lock down.

I did notice when she came back she did an excellent job and stayed a little over her two hours both times.

I don’t expect anything extra.

So if you worked in a restaurant that had to close and was paid throughout closure , to keep the wolf from your door, would you like to be asked to do extra hours for free? Just to make the restaurant look lovely?

I think you can't ask...but I would be hoping she would not charge for it either.

Definitely not OP. You would think it wrong if an office based employer suggested something like this, you would be wrong too. Don’t request it of her. Those ‘free’ hours you want are her working hours, she very likely can’t afford them.

I know what you mean.... but no I think it’s a separate thing.
If you meant that then you should have made it clear at the time.

I also paid our cleaner through lockdown fully initially and then 50% for the last few weeks, because I was aware when she returned it would be much dirtier than normal. (I did do some cleaning but not as thoroughly as her and kids around all the firm plus continuing working out of the home)

So it’s not just the time but also she is having to clean more intensely for these first few weeks back.

I think it's an outrageous thing to ask for.
You've coped this long without a cleaner, having a couple more weeks when it isn't quite up to standard is no big deal.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the pleasant and helpful replies, especially from those who have pointed out the valid reasons why this would be unreasonable. I'm slightlyat the couple of responses from people who are clearly treating their cleaners very well indeed (and feeling virtuous for doing so) but who feel the need to be so unpleasant in their replies - I can assure you I am far from Lady Bountiful decreeing any sort of anything
We are a very normal family who happily pay a VERY good wage to a cleaner who we trust and value. After some neighbours told us they had stopped payments and some had reduced to 50% we felt this was unfair and gladly continued to pay in full but I do admit that I agree to some extent with my husbands argument that loyalty and appreciation go both ways...
However I also very much agree that it would be wrong at this point to request the hours to be included in money already paid if it is not offered and so I will not be doing this.
Thanks everyone.

I do think goodwill goes both ways and you may find she’ll do extra without being asked as she appreciated you supporting her in difficult times.

I think this is cheeky. You paid her so she wouldn’t be out of pocket. You can’t then expect her to work for nothing.

FWIW I paid mine throughout and she’s still not back.

Thread where op accepts they have been wrong and changed their mind. How often do you see that?!

Congratulations op. Good decision.

We paid ours half pay, she was very grateful. She stayed on the first week back to do extra then popped back this week to do an extra hour... I did say I would pay For the extra time but she said she wanted to do it for us as a thank you. I did pay with no expectation of anything, so was grateful she did the extra.

I think unfortunately if you'd said at the time we'll keep paying but could that go towards a deep clean to get back up to standard that's one thing, just expecting it isn't reasonable. though my cleaner has done 50% extra this week and last.

Yes - sorry OP - my post crossed yours.

Out of interest what is a vary good rate? I pay £12 per hour

Just looked at your original post and you must pay around £20 per hour?? Wow

Yes it is cheeky and I think you know that.

@Flippetydip you asked your cleaner to do extra bits which you will not pay her for?

I’m surprised out all these people paying for cleaners etc while they’re not working. I personally wouldn’t have done as there was government money available for them. If she doesn’t offer to at least repay the favour in some part by doing a few extra hours without charging, then I’d be quite annoyed, because yes, it would be cheeky.

I paid our cleaner for March but she told me not to pay after that as she is self employed and was paid by HMRC. She said her husband was shielding do she would not be able to return until July 1st. I am getting desperate. I am hoping she will be able to do extra hours when she returns as 4 will not be enough to get house back up to standard.

@Mrstwiddle

A) the money for self employed wasn’t available until June

B) i have no idea whether she’d have qualified for it as I don’t know about her tax affairs.

All I know is as a family our income has remained unaffected and we decided to continue paying our ‘suppliers’ as normal - cleaner,
Childminder and window cleaner.

I don’t expect her to give me a rebate etc if she gets the grant. She doesn’t earn much, she’s kind and reliable and trustworthy and if she comes out ‘up’ good for her.

I would expect to pay for the extra hours. You can't give someone something with one hand then take it back in the other. X

@Mrstwiddle - I’m a self employed cleaner since last April therefore I don’t qualify for the SE grant. Please don’t blanket everyone with entitled to help.
I’ve had to work every single day in some capacity (gardening so outside the house) to just survive.
My help is £23.44 UC
I’m not moaning- it’s life

If course you can't ask them to work for free, when does it end? Either you paid during lockdown or you didn't.
I wasn't as generous as you I only paid my cleaner 50% but this was because I also lost my job, I have one now but I made the decision to pay her. This does not mean she has to give me free hours, otherwise I was actually didn't pay her during the lockdown but paying her in advance, clearly paying in advance and paying in Lieu are two very different Scenarios and one makes me a okay employer (if you paid 100% then you are a fab employer) the other makes you look like some one who is trying to look good but is not as generous as you line to think you are.
I have a fab cleaner and it was the least I could do to ensure she came back to me... that was my payback.

I paid my cleaner throughout, she did an extra one and half hours this week (first week back) and is doing the same next week. She deep cleaned downstairs this week and is doing up next week. She refused to charge and also gave me flowers and a lovely card thanking me for my support. As she said a lot didn't pay her and she was grateful that I did.

I think a few extra hours when you've no contract to pay her is the least she could do.