to think they should have at least told us this first?

[overtimewoes]

This is covid-adjacent.

I've name changed.

I work for an NHS trust. At the beginning of the pandemic my colleagues and I were asked to take on extra shifts on COVID work (i.e. not our usual job but work we are qualified to do - ENT resident working in ICU etc). These were "voluntary" (if enough people hadn't volunteered they'd have been mandatory, it was necessary work) and in addition to our contracted hours and therefore we were offered overtime, which according to the email is "time and half".

I, and my colleagues, took this to mean 1.5 times our usual hourly rate. Due to the way overtime is paid, we didn't receive any payment until the most recent wage slip. When we all received our pay, we queried it as it was A LOT less than we had been expecting (by almost half). To be told that all overtime hours, regardless of job role and seniority is capped at £16 per hour. So overtime is paid at a maximum of £24 per hour. My hourly rate is £23 per hour. So for the extra shift (12 hour per week) I am getting an extra £1 per hour.

It's not the hourly rate that has pissed me off, but that we weren't informed of the 'true' payment. I've worked well over and above my hours, for free during this pandemic, I'm not greedy and have happily been doing it, it has been necessary. But when I'm told I will be paid one thing, I don't expect to be paid another. I'd have done the shifts for my normal rate, I've worked an average of 10 hours per week for free throughout it's not the money that's the issue, it's the duplicity.

the extra money was how I sold it to DH though, who has had to work a full time job and do all the child care as I have practically lived at the hospital 6 days a week.

AIBU to be annoyed?

Sigh, I’m a minority YABU. But it’s purely because mass emails stating overtime is “time and half” are usually blanket emails to all staff. So, everyone from a consultant doctor to the cleaners making £7/hr would have gotten the same email.

Whether or not you, in your position, are even eligible for time and half depends on your employment contract. No email can change that and it does appear that those who were eligible, did receive it. It was your responsibility to know your contract and what overtime meant for you personally. No staff email can tell each person their unique situation.

I had something similar when I worked for a government agency. Overtime pay was capped, so higher earners would not earn time and half on overtime and many, myself included, actually earned LESS per hour on overtime than regular hours because we were in the top pay grades. I was happy to get any extra money for overtime because typically when you’re earning a lot per hour, overtime is not paid because you’re considered to be on a fixed salary.

Whether or not you, in your position, are even eligible for time and half depends on your employment contract. No email can change that and it does appear that those who were eligible, did receive it. It was your responsibility to know your contract and what overtime meant for you personally. No staff email can tell each person their unique situation

Then the email should have made this clear, surely? i.e. 'This is a general offer and not one made in light of the special circumstances. The conditions specified in your contact regarding overtime still stand and you are advised to check your contacts before accepting this offer'.

That’s awful, I can imagine many have either physically or mentally spent the money on nice things for their families to compensate the time lost with them.

All NHS staff, employers and unions are bound by the rules in Agenda for Change. This element of it isn’t even in the fine print. It’s always been an issue that overtime is capped for higher graded staff.

Unless the employer specifically said they would breach the rules this was always going to be the case. I’m surprised a nurse is surprised about this or that they would be expected to work elsewhere in a situation like this. All part of well known terms and conditions.

Personally I think localised breaches of agenda for change t&c is far more of a threat to staff, services and patients than this. It creates a Wild West of pay and conditions that in past has benefited no one.

My trust has a cap and every time I get offered an extra shift they send a document with the capped rates. I don’t do extra for those rates as they’re so appalling (pre Covid, appreciate things are different now and you were doing a nice thing). I always negotiate and have done in other trusts before. The cap is definitely negotiable! It’s terrible that they said one thing and are now back tracking. I think they are really trying their luck. I hope you have it in writing as I don’t see how “time and a half” could be interpreted as an extra £1 per hour in any situation! I would get all of you together and send a strongly worded mass email stating the facts and saying how disappointed you are that you volunteered your spare (limited) time and are now being treated like this this. It sounds like you’re medical staff, I would hope at least one of you is a BMA member and can get some advice, I have found that these things magically go away once I have stated that I’ve taken union advice and have copied the rep into my emails. Get a paper trail for everything. Good luck.

As you were told that after voluntary it would be mandatory, if this is not specified in your contract that they have the authority to do this then the pay regarding this should also be outside of your contract.

Sigh, I’m a minority YABU. But it’s purely because mass emails stating overtime is “time and half” are usually blanket emails to all staff. So, everyone from a consultant doctor to the cleaners making £7/hr would have gotten the same email

Whether or not you, in your position, are even eligible for time and half depends on your employment contract. No email can change that and it does appear that those who were eligible, did receive it. It was your responsibility to know your contract and what overtime meant for you personally. No staff email can tell each person their unique situation.

Sorry, this is nonsense. If they intended their email only to apply to some people, or only to apply subject to a cap, it would have been the work of a few seconds to add that to the message. You cannot in law have a term in a contract or a rule that says it can't be varied under any circumstances. In contractual terms, the email was an offer which OP and others accepted on the terms set out, so there was a concluded legal obligation.

Yanbu I'd be sorely disappointed. Kick up a fuss with a loud voice, it probably won't change it this time.
So much for looking after the heroes of the NHS. This is shit.

PlanDeRaccordement I'd agree, if it was a generic email. However it was sent out to a specific group of workers across 2 bands and in a specific area of work. The overtime was in a really specific area and we were asked as we had transferable skills and no training needs so could hit the ground running. It would have been obvious to the person asking, that most of us were above the cap. None of those (about 8 out of 20 it affects) I've discussed this with were aware of the cap at our level. It is not in my contract - I've looked. And the response I've had from payroll is that is was agreed at a previous, unspecified, pay negotiation.

Speak to your union rep, this needs to be raised at a national level, if it has been repeated throughout the NHS.

I agree that you should contact your union. You should all write to your MP too.
The NHS has always done this sort of thing.
Just a few examples from my personal experience:
Compulsory 12 hour night shifts, supposedly at time and a half, but then only 8 hours calculated as being unsocial hours.
Compulsory "acting up" on basic pay for months at a time.
Part time workers kept on the lowest pay band.
TBH I always found the RCN absolutely hopeless, but maybe they have improved in recent times.

It is absolutely unfair and exploitative.

Im a bit confused because you’ve said you were working for free, but you also said you were being paid £24 ph for your overtime shifts? If you were paid for them, even if it was at your base rate, then how is that working for free?

I can understand your anger at being paid at 1x your rate and not 1.5x, but being paid £24 an hour instead of £34.50 isn’t the same as working for free, unless I missed something?

I would speak to your manager and to payroll. I do payroll for the nhs and there have been a lot of changes in light of covid so it might be that the cap has been removed for this work but the information hasn’t been sent across?

I'm not a nurse

Someone needs to speak to the union.

I can see you are a doctor and as you are on Mumsnet presumably a parent too. PMGUK on Facebook is the perfect place to get an answer for this.

BMA might be useful but I would be prepared to involve a solicitor.

BillysMyBunny sorry if I confused you. My contracted hours are 48. On an average COVID week I work 55-60 hours, the hours above 48 are unpaid. These are worked at the beginning and end of my usual weekly shifts and are not "overtime". This kind of additional work is fairly normal, there's just been a bit more of it due to COVID and normally I'd be able to take back the time as TOIL where as currently I can't. No biggie.

I was asked to do completely separate overtime, rota'd shifts of 12 hours each, in a different department, for which I was told I would be paid overtime at "1.5 hourly rate".

Given there will be a 2nd wave shortly...this is very short sighted. I would inform them that I cannot do any more than contracted hours going forward. You know where they stand the bastards.

Well it is the money because you don’t go to work as a hobby. If it’s in an email and there is no mention of cap then these are the new terms you were working with, please go to your union.

Sigh, I’m a minority YABU. But it’s purely because mass emails stating overtime is “time and half” are usually blanket emails to all staff. So, everyone from a consultant doctor to the cleaners making £7/hr would have gotten the same email

sigh I'd expect something as big as the NHS to be clear about what they're offering at a time when all hands to the deck is pretty much an order and people are going above and beyond regularly

OP - so what if you're not getting paid what they said. You get applause on Thursdays. Bask in the warm glow and be happy with that.

I'm not sure about the outrage at the usual unpaid overtime, I think most well paid professionals routinely start and finish a bit earlier/later than their contracted hours.

If you were specifically asked to do official overtime, you should be paid what you were promised but it does sound, from PPs, that this cap is part of the standard NHS T&C.

Go back to the person who promised it to you, not payroll.

But people clapped you every Thursday evening, what more do you want?

Really though, this stinks. YA absolutely NBU. You and your colleagues should make a very loud noise about this.

Even if the cap is stated in your contract, these are exceptional circumstances and because of that, the email promising you time and a half was misleading.

You were seriously misled, either through negligence or intentionally.

I don't get this bit though:

"all overtime hours, regardless of job role and seniority is capped at £16 per hour. So overtime is paid at a maximum of £24 per hour. My hourly rate is £23 per hour. So for the extra shift (12 hour per week) I am getting an extra £1 per hour. "

How does a cap at 16 per hour pay a maximum of 24 per hour?

I think in your position I would be kicking up a fuss.

Please esculate to your union and whatever other channels you can. The fact that some people think this is acceptable is pretty sad.

Get onto your union. You do need to be paid for this - and since they have put it in writing you have the evidence that you need. By involving the union you solve it not just for you but for everyone in a similar position.