Paid my cleaner during lockdown

[Anantara]

Just interested on views. I paid my cleaner in full during lockdown, I was the only one of my friends that did, apart from another friend who uses the same cleaner, it was £50 per week. A couple of weeks ago I text asking if she was okay and if she'd been able to access the SE funding. The day I texted was the day I was due to pay her. She replied she had and was expecting a payment the next day and she said for the sake of honesty I should stop paying her. So my understanding is she has been paid by me, and now 80% by the government - is this correct? And if it is, is anyone else in my position, and how do you feel?

I'm afraid it doesn't sit comfortably with me. There are a lot of assumptions about cleaners being poor and people who employ cleaners being wealthy. She isn't poor, she chooses to clean to fit in with her child who is 10. She goes on lovely holidays almost every school holiday, such as Iceland and Paris.

I did it because I thought she would receive nothing, she has been cleaning for me since late last year, so not many months and declares the income, so was able to claim. I think she only told me about the grant because I asked her. I didn't pay her to give her a bonus, I do that generously at Christmas. Our own income is being cut by 50%, but I felt I was doing the right thing and doing my bit for society. I think you should be able to trust your cleaner, and I don't know if I do now.

Just because she can claim the grant and take my money doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I'm still paying mine. I have no idea if she's claiming the funding (I hope she is) but I don't really think it's my business or my place to ask.

Funding is only 80% anyway so I'm sure the additional will be making a big difference to her and I doubt some of her other clients would still be paying while she can't go and work for them

I suppose it also comes down to how much you value your cleaner. Mine is amazing, trustworthy, reliable, great at her job, lovely to my kids. I want her to still want to work for me when this is all over.

I paid mine because honestly? She's cheap as chip and always has been despite doing a cracking job. I've been paid throughout, DH and I have actually saved on commute costs, so why not share the benefit? Plus she immediately returned to work as soon as she could, and was extremely appreciative of the continued payment and is giving me extra cleaning time for a few weeks as a thank you.

i still paid mine in full for the last 2 months.

She has said she can come back now, so not sure how we will do it. I paid her June at start of month, so if she comes back mid month, its already sort of paid for.
But language barriers mean it will be overly complicated to explain all that in a text.
So i may start her early July to avoid issues!
Give me chance to clean myself first anyway!

My Walker only received the SE funding payment end may/early June she didn't have anything before this so was very grateful. We are quite friendly, I didn't interrogate her finances BTW.

I continued to pay mine full pay. I don’t know if she’s accessed the support available or not, I know she just does cleaning on the side so not sure if she’d be able to demonstrate her earnings etc (even though we don’t pay cash). But it’s only £35 a week and DH and I continue to be paid. We have asked her to start again from next week as there’s a day nobody is in the house so no risk of interaction.

If employers can top up furlough then why can’t self employed people be topped up

Sounds like you begrudge paying her

You choice. You chose to pay her

FWIW - the seiss that se people get is 80% of nett profits - not 80% gross salary as employee gets

I’m se. I earn a good wage when I work but what I got in seiss wasn’t much esp as I was on ml 2 of the tax years split

If it was 80 gross I would have easily got the £2500 a month

We also had to wait to late May to get the payout

That’s 8:9w of no money for those who couldn’t work

The seiss grant allowed you to work as well if you could

You obviously don’t want to pay your cleaner and that’s fine. But don’t make out she had done something wrong

I paid mine - no idea if she qualified for the SE payment. She and her husband are clearly not earning lots in normal times let alone now. I can afford it (currently) so am happy to pay her.

You sound horrible. You don’t know who is paying for those lovely holidays. You shouldn’t have asked her about the grant as it’s none of your business. If she has a husband who is the main earner then she’s probably cleaning for some financial independence as well as fitting in around her child. She may not be poor but she’s very unlikely to be rolling in it

I was a self employed dog walker. I started my business in April 2019, so entitled to nothing through the SE scheme. Even if I'd started earlier, I can't imagine I would be entitled to much because when starting my business I was lucky if I brought in £300 a month. My husband also started his new job on the 9th of March so wasn't entitled to furlough payment. Icing on the cake is that I'm pregnant so we went from a decent income to potentially having to live off our savings that we needed to get things ready for baby.

One of my customers very kindly paid me in full without me asking. I honestly felt embarrassed accepting the money but I was extremely grateful nonetheless.

My husband and I ended up being ridiculously lucky as I was offered a call centre work from home job, and the government changed their guidelines so my husband was then entitled to his payment. I explained to my customer who had paid that I appreciated their support, but couldn't consciously accept any payments now we were okay.

I don't know my customer's financial situation, very much like they didn't know mine, so I don't think we can use the 'oh well they would be getting support anyway argument' I was very appreciative however that my customer supported me during a time where I didn't know how I was going to pay my mortgage.

I didn't pay mine, I felt my own work was uncertain and like many people's it still is. I have a company though, not an individual person, I don't know if people feel it makes a difference.

I guess some people will get away with what they can, whether or not it would be seen as right.

You paid her because you felt it was the right thing to do. What did you say to her at the time when you had the discussion that she would no longer come to work?

She has now also been paid by the government. Do you think she should pay you back?

How would she know that you think this if you don't talk to her about it?

Ffs OP!

You chose to pay her and now you know she has had a SEISS payment you feel she has taken advantage of you?

Stop paying her and either clean your own house or find another cleaner. The one you have has got above her station!!!

Seriously, chances are she thinks you are a lovely person and will go to some lengths to thank you. Best hope she doesn't read this and realise what you really think of her?

Pshaw!

I paid my cleaner - without the money he couldn't pay his rent or afford to buy food. His wages as a cleaner don't leave him much over for savings!

He has now come back but is working partially to avoid cross infection from one household to the next (he has mask, gloves, overshoes and boilersuit which he changes between households, plus goes home to shower midday.

My dh is still being fully paid. I'm self-employed and massively affected, but at the end of the day we have savings and could afford it.

But guess which clients my cleaner has returned to first? yes, the ones who continued to pay him... Financial logic would say to go to the other houses to start earning from them again, but he is grateful to those who kept him going over a difficult time.

@Rosemary46

It just seems very harsh if you know you're still being paid in full, that you wouldn't pay someone who is working for you (in whatever capacity) but now loses their income, through no fault of their own

She won’t have lost her income, she’s SE so can get 80% from the government .

I’ve not paid anyone for things they haven’t done.

I’ve not paid the garage for the car they haven’t serviced, the hairdresser who hasn’t cut my hair and Next and M&S for the clothes I haven’t bought or Costa for the coffee I’ve not drunk. I didn’t pay for my holiday that was cancelled.

Have you paid all these people BIWI ?

She won't necessarily get money from the government - I don't know if she's s/e or just cash-in-hand. I do know, however, that she was in despair when we realised she couldn't come and clean any more, for me and for the rest of her clients - in despair and desperate. Whereas I continue to draw my full pension.

And the comparison with the other places is not a fair one - as my hairdresser has a company that employs her so she will have been furloughed, as with Costa workers and any other shop worker. (Not that I ever actually use Costa or M&S!)

And yes, I have paid my cleaner - in full - throughout this period.

Sorry - I meant I don't use Next. Who doesn't use M&S?!

And fyi my car service isn't due yet, but I have just paid to have my MOT, so hope that's alright?

Okay the consensus seems to be that she should be entitled to the grant and to be paid in full, and I should not have asked her, but continued to pay her until she told me otherwise.

I thought I was unusual continuing to pay her, as no-one else I know, except one friend, has continued to pay their cleaner (apart from on mumsnet). FWIW I asked her because I was concerned that she was okay, I'd heard nothing from her since lockdown started.

It's not that she is entitled it's more that your ire is misplaced.

You seem to now begrudge doing a good thing.

And that's for you to work your way through.

She did nothing wrong.

Op it seems you’re pissed off she’s earned extra during this period.

Personally I find it a bit petty but you need to do you. I paid my cleaner throughout, everyone I know did. Only one didn’t. I have no idea if she declares her income and I f she claimed the grant. As said I don’t give a shit and I’d never ask her. Her finances are her business.

She didn’t come because I asked her not to. The government advice was cleaners could actually still work throughout. Hence it was On my dime. I also would not have seen her go short As she has dependents. If she claims and gets extra, then in this scenario I can only think fair enough good for you.

I don’t believe for one moment your cleaner is wealthy and cleans for the sheer joy of it round her kids as you’re trying to portray. The vast majority of people who do that job do it because they need the money.

Sometimes op, the saying, be kind, really is applicable. Paying her then resenting her because she got more than you anticipated is far from kind.

Great post @Bluntness100

“Okay the consensus seems to be that she should be entitled to the grant and to be paid in full, and I should not have asked her, but continued to pay her until she told me otherwise.”

Not exactly... but, the entitlement to the grant wasn’t dependant on having no income, just an altered one... and you chose to pay her at a time when she didn’t have any other income (bear in mind the grant wasn’t paid until the end of May).

So it’s a bit unfair to be angry about something that was your decision...

I have paid mine 50% throughout and had them back yesterday for their usual 4 hours. I have no idea if they claimed SE funding but they are excellent with a long waiting lost and I wanted to ensure I could have them back n the same slot. I loathe cleaning so even though we are both wfh they are very much wanted!

Self employed are getting 80% of their PROFIT over the last 3 years. NOT of their income. If tgey had any big costs over the last years, that will reduce their government pay. If they have any running costs/costs for the year - they’ll still tun on, and are not covered. etc, etc.
It is a lot less generous than furlough!

Mine was very clear from early on she would be claiming the 80% but I was still happy to pay her. My rationale was our income wasn't affected too much (i was furloughed so lost some but we have spent less), she wouldn't be able to access anything for a few months and I've had her for two years and I haven't paid her holidays or anything (as a replacement comes) just a Christmas bonus so I didn't mind a few weeks of paying her.

If she managed to get a little extra extra, good for her, I imagine a lot of people will stop employing cleaners in the next couple of years - potentially us as my industry isn't safe though ive returned to work.

She is coming back this week, can't wait!