AIBU to think we should do our own contact tracing?

[Cailleachian]

Test and trace seems to be the only way out of this coronavirus situation without the body count racking up even higher. I have no faith whatsoever in the UK government contact tracing system, and even in Scotland, I don't see much evidence of progress with it.

Even if it did work fine, I'd still be really nervous of it, because the risk of my location data being bundled together with my NHS data and sold off to one of Dom's mates in a shady deal.

I've found the app "Coalition", its a global app that works through bluetooth and alerts anyone who has been in the vacinity of a mobile phone where the owner has self-registered a positive result. No data is held centrally, and everything is encrypted.

The downsides I can see are false positives: someone putting in that they are sick when they are not, but that would only prompt people to get tested more frequently (which can only be a good thing surely).

Thoughts?
www.coalitionnetwork.org/

The NHS app that's coming works the same way, it doesn't use location/GPS data just Bluetooth pings. If you have symptoms you book your test through the app and if it's positive, you then upload the Bluetooth pings. They've been very careful with privacy

The NHS app in England isnt going to be ready until September. The app in Scotland seems to have been forgotten about and they are working on two different apps, whereas this one is here and global.

I dont believe they are being careful with privacy at all. Any centralised system is open to data leaks - either hackers or deliberate sales.

In Ireland as restrictions are lifted they are asking everyone to keep a note of everyone they see, and what times they are in shops/on transport etc.

That way if anyone develops symptoms they can pass over the list and close contacts can be followed up quite quickly. But then, there has been contact tracing in Ireland throughout.

I was always surprised the Gov didn't advice us to just do our own contact tracing early on. Tell people you've been in contact with that you have covid. Even if only a small number of people did this it's better than nothing. Also, they should have just gone with the off the shelf app that gives them no access to our data. Instead they went with Cummings mate (how much did they pay again? ) I wouldn't trust the Gov or it's cronies with my data, they have form on this stuff.

I said to DH about 6 weeks ago, I was thinking of making a note of everywhere I go as my own personal contract tracing system. He thought it was unnecessary .

Agree with pp that it's common sense if you've got symptoms to tell the people you've been into contact with. The issue is whether they'll act on that information and self isolate.

There was a news article last week that NHS staff were testing positive and colleagues were carrying on as normal. It's such a short term approach and everything is happening far far too late.

The snag is that contacts need to be officially told to isolate in order to be able to stay off work and get sick pay if they cannot WFH.

111.nhs.uk/isolation-note/

But then if you get a ping on the app, you go get tested at an NHS centre and you will know whether you need to isolate or not. Whereas if you never find out that the person on the bus was infected, you wouldnt get tested until/if you developed symptoms.

But yeah, this only sorts out the contact tracing mess, it doesnt sort out the testing mess.

I just have no confidence in the Government at all, I dont even think they are trying to save lives or even care. They are working how much cash their mates can be make from all this, and sod the collateral damage. I dont want to rely on them to save my life, I'd rather rely on other people who similarly dont want to die.

In Ireland the official instructions come from the contact tracers - people are asked to give them the list. People are supported not to work if asked to self-isolate (€350 a week at the moment).

NHS staff often have no option but to keep working; if every nurse who was in contact with someone who was positive went off work, the hospitals would be even more understaffed than they are.

But then if you get a ping on the app, you go get tested at an NHS centre and you will know whether you need to isolate or not. Whereas if you never find out that the person on the bus was infected, you wouldnt get tested until/if you developed symptoms.

The virus has an incubation period of anything up to 14 days and you are unlikely to test positive until around a day before developing symptoms. Otherwise we could just test all the contacts straight away even with the government system.

I agree with you about the government app and I won't be using it. I would use something like this coalition app if it was the model the government had gone for but I don't see how it could work unless it used confirmed test results and could generate certificates to allow contacts time off work to isolate.

I'm just keeping notes of contacts / dates and times of places I've been using old fashioned pencil and paper.

@Cailleachian

But then if you get a ping on the app, you go get tested at an NHS centre and you will know whether you need to isolate or not. Whereas if you never find out that the person on the bus was infected, you wouldnt get tested until/if you developed symptoms.

But yeah, this only sorts out the contact tracing mess, it doesnt sort out the testing mess.

I just have no confidence in the Government at all, I dont even think they are trying to save lives or even care. They are working how much cash their mates can be make from all this, and sod the collateral damage. I dont want to rely on them to save my life, I'd rather rely on other people who similarly dont want to die.

That’s not how it works. You get a ping on the app (or a call from the tracers until that’s available) and you self isolate. You only go for a test if you develop symptoms. It wouldn’t work any other way as you are infected for a good little while before you test positive.

People are supported not to work if asked to self-isolate (€350 a week at the moment).

Yeah I think this is something we should be doing here. In the UK you just get statutory sick pay and lots of people will not be able to afford two weeks off work. There doesn't seem to be anything in place for self employed.

I have the IOW app. It works as you say. None of my details are on there - only the first part of my post code. It communicates with other phones via bluetooth. If I report in the app I have symptoms/have a positive test, it then contacts all those I've spent 15 minutes with within 2m. It doesn't tell them who, just that they have been in contact with someone and to isolate and get a test.

@cardibach I'm talking about how this app works. It pings you to let you know that you have been in the vacinity of someone who has tested positive. You are then advised to go for a test. If that test comes back positive, you (or your doctor through a code) input that positive result into the app and all the people that you have been in the vicinity of in the last 14 days are pinged...and so on.

It does however rely on a proper testing system, which we dont have at the moment, tho.

@Pipandmum - whats the IOW app?

You are infected for a good while before you develop symptoms, but you would test positive if you were infected, regardless of symptoms.

I don’t think that’s the case, Cailleachian. You need to have enough viral load for it to register. People contacted by track and trace now are told to isolate for 14 days or get a test when they get symptoms for that reason.

You are infected from the point when you had contact with the infected person. You won't test positive until you start shedding virus which is generally a day or so before you start showing symptoms. This is on average 5-6 days after contact but can be up to 14 days.

If we could reliably test contacts straight away and find out which were infected we could have this whole thing sorted in a fortnight.

You absolutely wouldn't test positive irrelevant of symptoms, we have enough problems getting a positive result on people once it's gone to their chest. Ideal is 24-48 hours after onset of symptoms, up to 5 days. It varies wildly in who gets a positive vs symptoms and how long people can test positive for. We had one patient test positive every 7 days up to 8 weeks after the first positive, another not test positive for 5 tests despite the medics being certain they were COVID. We know a lot more than we did 4 months ago, but not enough to be certain of much at the moment. That's why if you test positive for antibodies, you still have to socially distance and isolate if you get symptoms or are a contact

@KenDodd

I was always surprised the Gov didn't advice us to just do our own contact tracing early on. Tell people you've been in contact with that you have covid. Even if only a small number of people did this it's better than nothing. Also, they should have just gone with the off the shelf app that gives them no access to our data. Instead they went with Cummings mate (how much did they pay again? ) I wouldn't trust the Gov or it's cronies with my data, they have form on this stuff.

yup. what the government are suggesting all seems a bit Big Brother to me.