To ask what should the top 3 priorities be in terms of addressing race based inequality in the UK?

[lemonsandlimes123]

I am interested to hear what people would consider to be the top priorities to be tackled in the UK in terms of improving race equality.

I am not sure myself and am aware that many areas intersect and there are many more than 3 things that need to be tackled but this is hopefully a way to start a conversation.

I think that the impact of structural racism in the NHS and particularly in maternity care is a big concern

Representation within the judiciary and legal profession

Social exclusion and over representation of poc in detention.

I think that's where I would start but open to all and any ideas

Well, this afternoon I am thinking that every single racist idiot that has made crass posts on MN over the last week should be rounded up for re-education...

Education:
every school to have a panel of (paid, community and expert) mentors who work alongside the school to ensure that everything from curriculum to policies and procedures (including exclusions and admissions, appeal panels etc, to school dinners are equitable. Some things are so so crass. The history of slavery taught in Black History Month...when actually the role of slavery in European history, as the history of an act of Europeans, should be an anytime topic. Are rules about hair equitable? Are staff learning how to detect unconscious bias?

Actually, all institutions should have this. As a conscious and continuous process, as a positive thing - not when there needs to be 'an enquiry' - by which time it is already too late.

A 'hands up' Charter. Organisations and institutions set an example by openly self-reflecting. When a TV broadcast introduces the white professor as 'Professor' and the black Professor AND Dame just with her name, not title, they need to openly admit this and use it as a learning example for others. Cull this atmosphere of people and organisations being defensive, and revere a 'hands up' culture. Truth and Reconciliation.

@lemonsandlimes123 It's interesting what you mention on schooling. I'm a primary school teacher and have dealt with parents explicitly giving racist, Islamophobic and sexist views. I have been involved in reporting to the police for hate speech because they chose to put racist views in writing. I hate to think what they are saying to their children when I can't hear.

As to your second post re. schools - children at primary level say racist things, usually because of their parents' views. I could not support permanent exclusion for these children though I abhor their words and the effect they have on the children they direct them towards.

@LaceCurtains I think when we are discussing something that has been an issue for at least half a century (I imagine longer and apologies for my lack of knowledge for history of race relations before this), it doesn't feel helpful that you have brought up something that has been an issue for 11 weeks and contribute nothing else to the discussion.

I hate positive discrimination - I want to get a job on my own merits. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I wouldn't however have an issue with a screening system which anonymised names from the hiring committees, so people couldn't discriminate against 'foreign-sounding names' and/or different genders. The big companies could easily implement a system like this.

As an interviewer myself, I think I'd quite enjoy the roulette of selecting a candidate based on an anonymised application and having no preconceptions of who turned up in my interview room!

I'd like to see education as the solution to a first time offence. The last time someone was racist towards me, that person was threatened with a disciplinary if I wanted to support that course of action. I just wanted that person to understand why their words had been so utterly offensive - if you discipline someone for being racist the first time they spout garbage, it just ingrains their dislike of another race. If you can educate that person instead, it makes it more likely their behaviour will change.

Of course, some people are just racist to the core, in which case they should be swiftly disciplined on their second offence rather than tolerated forever.

I'd also like people to remember that BAME is not interchangeable with Black. When you're campaigning for more education in schools and workplaces, please remember that. Those of us who fall under "Asian and Minority Ethnic" also deserve a voice.

qweryuiop you're a teacher and you feel it's appropriate to call out someone for having nothing to contribute when they said it was about education?

YinMn- I think your points are really interesting particularly like the 'panel' idea. The need to have people 'in the room' when decisions are made. I would just ask how you square asking people to have a hands up non defensive culture when you opened you post with a suggestion of rounding people up and sending them for reeducation. Can you see how one is unlikeley to lead to the other!

As a POC (mixed black/white) I am actually against positive discrimination for what it's worth.

But I would like to put forward this idea:

An enforced end (led by government) to the systematic and institutionalised cover ups that happen whenever a black man dies in police custody in the UK.

Smiley Culture, Dalian Atkinson, etc etc... every time, the evidence is flimsy, things disappear, the CPS say "not enough evidence to bring a case"... very rarely does an institution admit its failings, work on a solution, or actually let the policemen who do the crime take the rap. Ever.

This would be the one change that might go a very, very long way to restoring trust for people.

@rainkeepsfallingdown

A lot of interesting points there. I really respect your point about positive discrimination and feel I need to learn more about this.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you think would be important areas to study to ensure that young people grow up with a good understanding of Asian and/or Minority Ethnic issues? Just a greater focus on non-British history, or something specific?

I do think that schools can mitigate the effects of growing up in households where racism is entrenched as I've seen this happen because equality values were an intrinsic part of the school's identity. This was a primary school though, so I'm not sure whether this is more challenging to combat further along. We also had a very diverse staff base.

A lot of thought needs to go into how this can be achieved in schools where the majority of children and staff are white. I've also, like PP, taught in a school where parents have felt comfortable making shocking comments, usually regarding a planned trip to a place of worship. I always challenged it, and the school would back you up but not with the clout that the situation warranted and I felt that there was a certain amount of 'it's terrible, but that's just the way some people are here'. What I'm trying to say in a rambly way is that the message from schools has to be consistent, and there should be a way of checking and measuring that this is happening.

Healthcare: According to the MBRRACE report in 2019, black women in the UK are 5 x more likely to die during pregnancy, and a seperate report states that they are twice as likely to have a stillbirth. All of this research is available online, and it's shocking, upsetting, and we need to be having this discussion seperate to lacklustre maternity care- which is an issue, but this is more important. It also beggars belief that many healthcare courses still don't teach how to diagnose and recognise symptoms which present differently in black women such as rashes etc, meaning many chances are missed.

In terms of positive discrimination, reaching out to underrepresented groups is important in my opinion, and identifying why.

gindaddy - do you feel the stephen lawrence inquiry was effective? I suppose i am asking as to whether you think there is anything to build on or whether we almost need to start from scratch?

@GinDaddyRedux

As a POC (mixed black/white) I am actually against positive discrimination for what it's worth.

But I would like to put forward this idea:

An enforced end (led by government) to the systematic and institutionalised cover ups that happen whenever a black man dies in police custody in the UK.

Smiley Culture, Dalian Atkinson, etc etc... every time, the evidence is flimsy, things disappear, the CPS say "not enough evidence to bring a case"... very rarely does an institution admit its failings, work on a solution, or actually let the policemen who do the crime take the rap. Ever.

This would be the one change that might go a very, very long way to restoring trust for people.

I thought that was the role of the The Independent Office for Police Conduct? Perhaps it needs to be reformed, but doesn't this body already exist?

schmoana - local govt etc have to carry out equality impact assessments of policies etc but in reality they are often paper exercises. I think the panel idea a pp came up with could really serve to give these assessments some power, particularly if it was backed up by legislation i.e they didn't just how power of making recommendations they could compel bodies to act in a more equitable way.

@qweryuiop When I went to school in this country (which is something not everyone realises due to the colour of my skin), all I learnt about was WWII, the Romans, crinolines and bustles. And I was an overachiever at school, so it's not as if I slept through any history lessons.

When I moved up into different years, I just learnt about the same things again. Other than the Romans, I didn't learn about any people from outside the UK (and I strongly suspect the only reason the Romans featured on the syllabus was because they came to the UK).

I'd like to see Chinese history taught around Chinese New Year. I'd like to see apartheid taught during Black History Month. I'd like to see anything other than WWII taught repeatedly - and I'd like to see it taught more sensitively. You don't want to give children nightmares, but the subject was never taught from the perspective of 'and let's stop this from ever happening again because it ruined lives all over the world.'

Regarding positive discrimination, it makes me so mad. Whichever way you frame it, it's discrimination against someone. All I've ever wanted is to be treated on an equal basis, with my merits judged on my skills and experience - not my name, my skin, my age or my gender. I want to stand proud and say 'this is what I've achieved on my own because I'm awesome' not 'I'm here because of a tick box.'

@lemonsandlimes123

wbeezer - the Glasgow model is soooooo frustrating, we have really clear evidence of something that worked brilliantly yet seem unable/unwilling to replicate it elsewhere.

@lemonsandlimes123

Glasgow didnt invent it orginated in Chicago so double tried and tested. Its all to do with £££, nobody wants to spend money, especially on "naughty" people.

@lemonsandlimes123

@rainkeepsfallingdown

The independent body for police conduct may exist. But it's there in name only. The outcomes remain the same... black men die in police custody in the UK too, but the police officers are protected by a system which places obstacles and obstructions in the way of actually achieving convictions.

You could add another independent body to the mix or rename the existing one. It makes no difference if there is no willingness to convict.

And if there's no willingness to convict, then people will subconsciously carry on with impunity.

gindaddy- do you think we need to start from scratch then?

@rainkeepsfallingdown

I like to think we are making progress in some of the areas you mention. However, it is still mostly tokenistic. The Chinese New Year Assembly and one-off lesson is fine and a small step in the right direction, but as it's not part of the curriculum it's very limited. Don't even get me started on the fact that the primary geography curriculum ignores the existence of Asia, Africa and Australasia.

I hear you and another that have posted regarding positive discrimination. I think there should be positive action towards those with learning difficulties in some way, because people with certain learning difficulties may be less good at performing a job, but still deserve a chance. But possibly those people that I am talking about would disagree just like you.

Recognition of the systemic racism faced by Travellers, Roma and Gypsies.

Removal of antiziganist and anti-Traveller laws and legislation.

Education: Access tailored to the needs of specific communities. More celebration and education about the history of different peoples. Positive discrimination when employing teachers.

OK so here is a question about schools? Do we go zero tolerance on any type of racist abuse i.e. immediate permanent exclusion and if so how do we square that with the fact that it is not unlikely that the perpetrator of the racist abuse may well be a white working class boy who is already underachieving and in excluding him we may well reinforce his feelings of exclusion and racist views?

You can have zero tolerance without immediate permanent exclusion. In fact as you say, that might be counter productive. Young people have to be able to make mistakes at school. Particularly those who lack good role models at home.

Positive discrimination is firstly not required in the first place, and secondly merely discriminates against someone else.

Their is no barrier to how high someone can climb based on the colour of their skin. The issue facing the large majority is social and economic factors.Britain is on the whole not a racist country (the odd asshole aside, but that's the same everywhere).

Education - Racism comes from the home, or anti racism isn't modelled.

Laws - Defining and addressing the issues that stops us moving forward. Looking at existing laws and their weaknesses.

Social inclusion - outreach from various agencies to tackle problems at grass root level.

Wizzadora I love you
I'm not sure if you have kids, but have you seen this, I get the newsletter emailed.
www.travellerstimes.org.uk/ytt

Zero tolerance doesn't have to involve exclusion, it doesn't even need to be a punishment.
Education is key, they could be made to stay in and be educated about the people they are racially abusing. The internet is full of resources, and as there is such an issue covering it in PHSE once a year is hardly benefitting anyone except a box ticking and lip service.
There are no Roma dolls, only the display type, so shortly after the river of blood speech in 1969, my Dad went out and bought 3 dolls. One white, one with hair as white as snow, so pure white and the other a black doll. You could not get a darker skin colour from the plastic. He told me they were best friends and they were all to play together. I was about 2.5 years old. Of course at the time I didn't understand, I grew up to understand though.
Would it be seen as a positive now though, or would you be accused of creating a divide saying that one was different?
can you still buy black dolls, I don't think he went anywhere special, just the local toy shop.

@Schmoana there has been in the NHS and Public Heath for years (I work in Health Planning and NHS Analytics). Can’t say for certain about areas of public service planning. Expect so for some areas though.

Maternity services are a disgrace full stop, it’s actually embarrassing. Boils my blood, lots of politics - sadly.

@Wizadorawobble

Yes! I can't claim to know enough, but it's sad that schools aren't flexible enough to support traveller communities in their education. In all schools I've worked at, there have been Irish traveller families. I've tried my best while they've been in my classes, but know that they're likely to go on to under-perform academically and leave school at a much younger age than others.

I think it needs to be less specific. More general things that make society more equal overall will help all social minority groups, and address the root causes, rather than the specific symptoms of this particular type of discrimination.

So things like:
-a Universal Income
-preventing people profiting from basic needs such as housing
-proportional representation