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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

999 replies

Millicent10 · 07/06/2020 16:58

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

OP posts:
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Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 08/06/2020 11:12

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AKissAndASmile · 08/06/2020 11:13

Gently toppling a rock into a river doesn’t negatively affect anyone in any way

I wouldn't say they gently toppled it. In fact the way he fell on his head then made the world's biggest splash as he hit the water was the most satisfying bit of the whole spectacle 😂

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 08/06/2020 11:16

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Moonmelodies · 08/06/2020 11:21

Can copper be galvanised?

Porcupineinwaiting · 08/06/2020 11:21

@Dissimilitude so do you think the suffragettes were wrong then?

Porcupineinwaiting · 08/06/2020 11:22

No copper cant be galvanised.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 08/06/2020 11:26

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Peregrina · 08/06/2020 11:28

Oxidised copper I assume. Looks lovely and shiny when first installed and then in no time turns green, and doesn't look as nice.

AKissAndASmile · 08/06/2020 11:37

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking

twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128?s=19

Enjoy!

MillicentMartha · 08/06/2020 11:42

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking The signs have been tidied up now.

MillicentMartha · 08/06/2020 11:45

And I wouldn’t call the floating harbour the sea!

coldwarenigma · 08/06/2020 12:02

The Council should have moved it to a museum long ago. There are probably some on the council who are quietly relieved at its removal.

A large number of people benefit from the legacies of the traders who worked/lived in the Bristol area. Those legacies are effectively 'blood money'.
Should this money now be redirected/removed even if sections of society who are disadvantaged benefit these days? Charitable trusts were set up on the back of trade. The money was invested, often administered with conditions of its use.
Just musing.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 08/06/2020 12:03

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Timesdone · 08/06/2020 12:19

Nelson Mandela was sentenced to life imprisonment for terrorist activities, he served 27 years. Sometime direct action is the only way to force change. The statue should have been removed years ago, there have been requests, petitions etc but nothing has happened. There has been a campaign to rename the concert hall but nothing has happened. To make a comparison of with modern day events imagine the people smugglers responsible for the recent container deaths went on to make a fortune, beame public benefactors, had buildings dedicated to them and statues erected, would that be right? Yes, people smuggling is illegal but their cargo had taken the risk at their own considerable expense whereas the slave trade was legal but the slaves were stolen commodities. This isn't a defence of illegal trafficking in case anyone decides to misinterpret my point but I'm trying to highlight how abhorrent and disgraceful it is that a slave trader is still honoured.

justanotherneighinparadise · 08/06/2020 12:24

Was t the company Tate and Lyle built off the back of colonialism and slavery? Why are we still buying their sugar

CayrolBaaaskin · 08/06/2020 12:28

@ChocolatelyAsFuck - I can read thanks. Your posts don’t make any sense. Obviously unauthorized removal of the statute could have caused “physical, emotional or financial harm” to another human. Not least it’s a big heavy thing that could have hit someone. So you must oppose it then by your own justification. Except you don’t.

As a pp said, no one here is agreeing with slavery or slave traders or statutes thereof. What we are agreeing with is public order and democracy. Not mob rule and for you to unilaterally decide when the law should be followed or not.

evilkitten · 08/06/2020 12:31

I've spoken to a few people about this today. In general, those not living in Bristol have seen it as vandalism, while those who do live here are quite joyful that the thing has gone. I may not be black, but having the thing there offended me. There is also an undercurrent of suspicion that Bristol City Council may have been complicit - it solves a thorny problem for them. The only people who seem to be pissed off are the Merchant Venturers, so that's another positive. And possibly Neptune on the next plinth down, who fancied a splash in the water.

I wasn't at the toppling, but I hear it was a non-violent, joyful affair. A very Bristolian way of dealing with it. Not deleting history, but making it.

LightenUpSummer · 08/06/2020 12:34

In a slightly conspiracy theory way, I wonder whether the statue stayed this long because the council relied on the Merchant Venturers' funding to keep certain things going in Bristol, especially in these times of funding cuts.

It's a very left-wing council so I strongly doubt the majority were happy with the statue. I'm glad the problem's been removed with them keeping their hands clean!

BubblesBuddy · 08/06/2020 12:43

So why did the council not remove it when they could have done? Bristol has the council they voted for. They need to wake up and get people who are more proactive and thoughtful.

I do not see that money from another organisagtion is bound up with a statue that could have gone to a museum or a photo of it could have gone to a museum. Its the ineffective council that should be looking at themselves. Being thankful a mob to got rid of it hardly going to please many people. Its just not accepting what the duty of the council is and its very lazy.

Cal2020 · 08/06/2020 12:45

Okay, the statue (on the right) has been toppled.

The protesters had better get themselves along to Bristol Cathedral next and smash the Colston window (on the left)!
Hmm

To feel emotional at the slave trader statue
evilkitten · 08/06/2020 12:48

Well, that's politics. Lots of influence and vested interests. Elected bodies are only a part of the picture.

hypernormal · 08/06/2020 12:52

"I would argue that aestheticization is a much more radical form of death that traditional iconoclasm...The museum institutionalizes the truly radical, atheistic, revolutionary violence that demonstrates the past as incurably dead. It is a purely materialistic death without return—the aestheticized material corpse functions as a testimony to the impossibility of resurrection. (Actually, this is why Stalin insisted so much on permanently exhibiting the dead Lenin’s body to the public. Lenin’s Mausoleum is a visible guarantee that Lenin and Leninism are truly dead. That is also why the current leaders of Russia do not hurry to bury Lenin—contrary to the appeals made by many Russians to do so. They do not want the return of Leninism, which would become possible if Lenin were buried.)" - Boris Groys.

I absolutely agree the statue should be gone from the public square, and am surprised that it was still standing, but I don't agree with the way this was done. It should be put in a museum where people can learn about Bristol's links to slavery. The ex-soviet countries have put a lot of theirs in sculpture parks. If anyone's been on the Moscow underground, you'll see it's a treasure trove of soviet era art - should they take a sledgehammer to it all? Or does it get a pass because that was white people murdering other white people? If so, why the distinction? You could argue the soviet legacy is very much alive in Russia and other ex-states, and this is in the more recent past.

All I see in that video is testosterone, mainly white males having a good time committing an act of vandalism, and as a woman I would feel very uncomfortable around such unpredictable mob behaviour. I support anti-racism and the right to peacefully protest, but don't believe anyone should be above the law - who then gets to decide what is fair enough game for destruction if that's not decided democratically? Women have been to all intents and purposes slaves throughout history, treated as property, should we have every statue of every politician from the past torn down for keeping us enslaved? Or don't we matter, because we're just women?

George Floyd didn't deserve to die and the way he died is sickening. I do find it rather selective how he's being treated as though he's a saintly martyr though, whereas in fact he was a violent criminal. It's the dishonesty, not just of this narrative, but of other leftist social justice narratives, that means I just can't get involved where I otherwise would. I would like to support anti-racism, but this movement along with others are so permeated with half-truths and lack of scrutiny, a demand to capitulate to only one narrative, that I feel I can't keep my integrity and do so. And now we've seen this used as an excuse for further acts of male violence around the world, with cops being shot, shops being looted etc. I noticed in one news story how a group of female volunteers who had been peacefully protesting had cleared up the mess others had made with their vandalism, same old story, men running amok and women cleaning up after them. I support anti-racism, will happily take part in a peaceful protest, but I'm so tired of the testosterone. I've of course seen this not just with BLM, but on other kinds of protests, it's pretty typical. It just makes me very cynical and not want to get involved.

evilkitten · 08/06/2020 12:55

The cathedral windows - and absolutely tons of other stuff - are part of Colston's legacy to the city. The cathedral hasn't removed them, but there's a clear level of discomfort there, and an attempt to provide context and Christian 'reflection on sins'. It's a process. The statue had none of that - even a plaque acknowledging his slaver connections was contentious. Its time had come.

Bristol is built on slavery, tobacco and alcohol. It's facing up to that past, and has become a fantastic vibrant and multicultural city. But it does need to continue the process of truth and reconciliation.

UmmH · 08/06/2020 12:56

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains
weren't the pyramids built on the backs of black slaves?

No they weren't. Google it.

LightenUpSummer · 08/06/2020 12:56

Well we don't know all the details do we? Maybe the Merchant Venturers keep several charities going, and are easily offended. In the council's position, it might've have been the lesser of two evils to let it stand? Answer is, we don't know enough to judge them either way.