To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

I meant to write he didn't want to rock the boat. When asked about discussing the statue -he said it was a difficult issue. It's complicated etc etc and for 4 years did nothing. Despite overwhelming petitions etc. Virtuous and wise -??!! Why are people ignoring what was written on it.

Apologism for slavery. I never, ever thought I'd see this on the supposedly 'enlightened' Mumsnet.

What an eye-opener - and what a severe disappointment the threads about this statue have been. If this is the 'socially acceptable' face of white supremacy then it certainly isn't lurking too far beneath the surface. It gives me the smallest modicum of insight into what black people are up against every single day of their lives whilst I, with a racial advantage I was only vaguely aware I possessed, had the privilege of remaining pretty much oblivious.

I'm ashamed that it took this backlash against the death of George Floyd to make me see. But how much more shameful to profess outrage at the destruction of a dead racist's statue but not over the state-sanctioned murder of a black US citizen.

Sobering times indeed.

It’s hypocritical to say the least. The very people who tore the statue down are the ones who continue to benefit from colstons legacy. The statue is neither here nor there (although imo it’s about time we had a colonialism museum to educate the public about the enduring legacy of Britain’s empire and all such monuments should be moved there where they may serve as educational resources). But statues and other symbolisms aside what people really need to understand is that if they live in Britain today they are still benefiting from Britain’s past. The only way to atone for that is to start treating developing nations fairly. The EU either needs to include them in it’s tariff free trade or just dismantle its little white country club altogether. Britain and other wealthy commonwealth countries need to do more to help countries that have come out of the empire worse off. People’s who have been minorities in their own ancestoral homes need to be given fair support to overcome generations of trauma. Countries that have struggled with independence should he offer any support they are willing to take whether that support is administrative, good trade deals, education programs, whatever. It’s 2020. It’s time for positive action not tearing down statues.

Apologism for slavery perpetrators, that should say.

They’ve been arguing about a reworded plaque, that actually references his connections with the slave trade for over 2 years.

Apologism for slavery.

Is it possible to identify any of this on the thread?

The title was about the statue. That’s what people are discussing on this thread.

It’s time for positive action not tearing down statues.

Tearing down statues is a positive action. Venerating with a commemorative statue a man who sold thousands of humans into slavery and death is what's negative. The indignity is not its destruction, but the fact that it was there in the first place.

The way people feel about this statue is the way they feel about racism. Pointless dressing it up.

CayrolBaaaskin please stop ceaselessly lying and twisting my words with an agenda to portray anti-racists as violent.

I very clearly said that destruction of anything that would hurt anyone or harm anyone’s livelihood is not acceptable.

Destroying a schools and workplaces very clearly hurts people and actively removes their livelihood.

I honestly don’t know what accusation you will hurl at me next. I’m frightened to say human lives matter, for fear that someone will go, “ohh so you’re saying dog lives don’t matter? You advocate dog murdering do you, dog killer!!”

It’s an obscene stretch, disingenuous, and goady as hell to respond to someone saying “it’s not okay to destroy places people rely on for their livelihoods” with “ohh so you’re okay smashing up workplaces then??”

Britain offered a lot of support post independence. Lots of newly independent citizens came here. Lots of these countries don’t want our support as it wasn’t cutting the ties. They want to succeed on their own and that’s wholly correct. We don’t need to keep interfering. Countries can choose who they wish to advise them and it certainly shouldn’t be Brits forcing themselves on their former colonies. I think few would welcome this.

Selective / cherry picked law breaking depending on your political sympathies is a fucking terrible idea on so many levels.

Chocolate
I’m not exaggerating, the people calling him a “racist mass murderer” are exaggerating. As are you. He was employee of a shipping company that shipped 84,000 slaves over the course of 30yrs. It wasn’t a “major international company” and it was not “his company”, five shares don’t make you a company owner. He never personally owned a single slave. He was never on a slave ship. Never murdered anyone.

He role was one of being complicit- by investing £500 and working for an immoral company. That’s the sum of it. Many people posting here are probably just as complicit in perpetuating slavery as he was by who they work for and what they have spent their money on.

Look up the companies that use slave labour, you probably have bought things from them. Even now, if you’re using a smartphone to post here, in your hand you are holding cobalt mined by African slaves who are still slaves today.

@BlackKite

I'm glad this was done and seeing people who object to it in a new and interesting light.

Will you be taking down details for later?

I dislike the implied assumption, and it reminds me a touch of the Cultural Revolution in China.

As others have pointed out on this thread, there can be all sorts of reasons why people think it is wrong for groups of people to destroy things they don't like, even if they have good justification.

The assumption that if you oppose tearing down statues, you should be viewed in an 'interesting new light' is strange.

If you see no difference between supporting the symbolism of the destruction of a statue honouring someone who made their wealth via the slave trade and all the horror that entails, and the bloody Cultural Revolution, I actually feel quite sorry for you.

Selective / cherry picked law breaking depending on your political sympathies is a fucking terrible idea on so many levels.

Yes. Because if it is legal is is always right. Marital rape only became bad when it was made illegal. And if it is illegal it is always wrong. Hiding escaped slaves was very wrong until slavery became illegal.

Unfortunately, many philanthropists made their money from slave and sugar trades. Guy's hospital was founded on Slavery money, most of this country has been built on the back of exploitation. Are we to pull down all buildings?
I am not for one moment, disrespecting the sentiment behind the protests etc, just pointing out that history cannot be revised by pulling down statues

@ChocolatelyAsFuck - no one is twisting your words at all. No one is “hurling any accusations“ at you. You said you thought destruction of property was ok if it doesn’t “hurt anyone” or “harm their livelihood”. You said that applies to personal property. Now you seem to be changing that and extending that to “workplaces”. YoUr posts Are bizarre and confused.

It’s clearly unacceptable to be smashing up public property, however you try to justify it.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks as many many have already said, just because I and others don’t agree with mobs smashing stuff up and chucking it in rivers doesn’t mean we don’t agree with removal of the statute. It’s totally ridiculous to claim that people are apologists for slavery because they don’t agree with mob rule.

I despise communism, it's an disgusting ideology that killed many millions. Can I smash up every hammer and sickle monument I come across on my holidays to Eastern Europe?

You're a bit behind the times. Who tore down the Berlin Wall? I seem to remember it was the East German people.

If you see no difference between supporting the symbolism of the destruction of a statue honouring someone who made their wealth via the slave trade and all the horror that entails, and the bloody Cultural Revolution, I actually feel quite sorry for you.

That's not what I said, so no need to feel sorry for me.

The point I was trying to make is that I feel uncomfortable with those who are claiming that if you do not positively support the tearing down of the statue during a protest, you are somehow suspect, and probably racist.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Selective / cherry picked law breaking depending on your political sympathies is a fucking terrible idea on so many levels.

Yes. Because if it is legal is is always right. Marital rape only became bad when it was made illegal. And if it is illegal it is always wrong. Hiding escaped slaves was very wrong until slavery became illegal.

Yes, because self-appointed groups, individuals and movements are always to be trusted in what laws they should obey. Their judgments are always spot on about what laws are appropriate to break, and there are never second-order effects of such "innocent" law breaking.

Shocked at all the people saying the protestors should go to prison for breaking the law. What about the suffragettes that crimes to allow you to get to vote? To enjoy the feeding you not enjoy today? And even 100 years on we don't have equality..... but yeah let's retrospectively throw charges at the women that fought for our rights.

Two hundred years on black peoples are still suffering from the legacy that is slavery. Their lives are worth less than white peoples. They are more likely to be poor, unemployed, Have a lower life expectancy, suffer discrimination on a daily basis. And you lot are saying they should campaign within the law. Maybe a nice little leaflet campaign. A petition. Bingo night down the local school. But you don't see that they HAVE been asking for a better life. Every.Fucking.Day. You think rich white people in power want to listen? Do you even REMEMBER the outcry in America when Obama became president?

If you sit crying about statues then you should really take a look at your self and ask why you aren't crying about the oppression of black people.

PlanDeRaccordement

He was employee of a shipping company
Colston was not just an employee. He was a board member, and later became Deputy Governor of the company. Deputy Governor is the term used for what nowadays would be called the chief executive and was the very highest position within the company (the actual Governor being James II, a purely honorary title). During the period Colston was Deputy Governor he literally ran the company.

that shipped 84,000 slaves over the course of 30yrs
84,000 is the figure given for the number of slaves shipped during the time period Colston was there. Not over 30 years.

It wasn’t a “major international company”
They held the British monopoly over certain countries in West Africa. Pretty major in my opinion.

five shares don’t make you a company owner.
He was Deputy Governor!

I think the statue should have been removed years ago but not like this. It cannot be a good precedent for a group of people to take the law into their own hands. You cannot complain that the police don’t uphold the law and treat BAME people equally and then break the law.