To feel emotional at the slave trader statue

[Millicent10]

being pulled down earlier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

This says so much and the symbolism of throwing it in the river is such a suitable ending. Reminds everyone what happened to so many slaves.

I thought Whiteladies road was named for the white statues of ladies on various buildings on the road?

There is a difference between accepting our city has links with slavery and glorifying one man because of the good deeds he could do with his blood money. But still renaming the streets to reflect our city now is not a bad idea.

Cromwell didn't genocide 620k people though. That was my whole point. Ive studied Cromwell. Can you provide a reliable source for your claims please

I've studied the bastard too. Contemporaneous estimates by Cromwell's own physician general estimated 618,000. But even the very most conservative estimates are that Cromwell was responsible for the death of at least 20% of the then population of Ireland. 1 in 5 people, at a minimum.

And while I don't hold Churchill responsible for gassing the Kurds, he has a high degree of responsibility for the death of roughly 3 million Bengalis. He was also responsible for sending the Black and Tans to Ireland and the utter atrocities they committed.

They were both monstrous fuckers.

Well I was taught a little about it at school in the 1990s. I probably sound like some awful racist who loves Colston...I’m not and I think the slave trade was a horrible terrible thing...however like it or not slavery has been around forever and is still around today and knocking down statues won’t help the situation it’ll just mean people forget in my opinion....school will focus on medieval history and WW1 and WW2 and local kids will end up not knowing how Bristol developed or its links to the slave trade....and I think that’s a very sad thing.

Sorry not read through the thread, but I liked the arguments the historian David Olesuga made in this short piece for defending pulling it down. All of which I agree with. For those saying it should have been kept up so people don’t forget who he was and what he did, Olesuga says it should be in a museum. He points out statues are there to revere the person, there is zilch to revere about Edward Colston. www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/he-slave-trader-murderer-david-4202819.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true

@Cakecakes2011

Weren’t some of the slaves sold to the slave traders by their own people?

Maybe, we don't have statues of them though.

I don't think renaming Blackboy Hill and Whiteladies Road is the worst idea I've ever heard.

Goodness. I wasn't entirely sure how serious MrsTannyFickler was. We have had someone posting on this saying that those names do not have the racist background that you are assuming. Not everything in Britain is racist: Britain has a longstanding and rich history.

You really need to check the stories of places before you assume that everything is racist, and even then re-consider whether that means they should be destroyed. If you read the full thread or even some of it you will find some very articulate points about how acknowledging the bad parts of history does not mean that everything needs to be destroyed: that is simply re-writing it.

@Cakecakes2011

Weren’t some of the slaves sold to the slave traders by their own people?

What difference does that make either way to the issue of Colston’s statue?

You're right Cakecakes2011 the statue should've been left up with a massive sign hung round it's neck saying 'Murdering racist piece of shit' and a rat shoved up his cock.

Ironically, there was a huge campaign for its removal. It failed and an agreement was made to add a plaque on what he did. Nobody could agree on the text. This has been going on for ages and ages.

@Cakecakes2011

Well I was taught a little about it at school in the 1990s. I probably sound like some awful racist who loves Colston...I’m not and I think the slave trade was a horrible terrible thing...however like it or not slavery has been around forever and is still around today and knocking down statues won’t help the situation it’ll just mean people forget in my opinion....school will focus on medieval history and WW1 and WW2 and local kids will end up not knowing how Bristol developed or its links to the slave trade....and I think that’s a very sad thing.

I was also taught about slavery at school, without having a statue of a slave trader around.

Oh no!!!
You have torn down the statue of a man who died 300 years ago.
I never knew him
He was a slave trader.
I never actually spoke his name before today.
But because black people have shared their voice loud and clear I suddenely care about a statue never knew existed

@MollyFish82 I am glad you replied as I didn’t want to waste an iota of my time replying to someone that thinks this is simply about one person and as such sees this as tiresome.

@MintyMabel no it hasn’t and that is a failure of our democratic system. When that happens more and more causes abandon the democratic path and ultimately that can only lead to anarchy.

All people have done here is make it easier for that to be forgotten...which teaches our children nothing.

No, the bringing down of Colstons statue isn't erasing history, it's writing a new one.

@cakecakes2011 why do you need a statue of a slave trader to stop people forgetting? Why can’t you replace it with a stature of a slave in chains, with a plaque naming Colston and describing the current statue as a replacement? That would keep local learning, without giving status to a slave trader.

I hope these people who are outraged by a statue being pulled down share the passionate view which was mainly to do with recent events and this is the result.....

It seems there’s more emotion over a statue than lives being lost.

I don't buy it. Whiteladies road may be named on the map as pubs. But sadly given Charles the second owned the Royal African company which had a monopoly on the slave trade company - coincidence . Pah! The Royal family owned the RAC and fought long and hard for other companies to not be allowed to trade in slaves. The clue is in the name. Even if black boys hill is named after C second - it should be gone. Him and the Duke of York were up to their necks in the slave trade. The names should ceased to have existed. White ladies may have been an inn but the clue is in the name. Slaves had DY for the duke of York branded on them or RAC. Owned by the Royal family . Worthwhile saying that when the slave trade was abolished the government paid compensation for over 200 years to the owners - oh yes up until recently the debt to slave owners including our elite and the compensation given to them was still being paid off by the dear old public. I do know a very unpleasant individual who called someone on his university course Blackie due to his black hair and not apparently his skin colour. Yeh right. Arsehole then and arsehole now. I don't know how anyone who has ever been to Bristol says is full of people liberals full of privilege- they clearly have never been to St. Paul's area of Bristol

But like it or not he did a lot of good for the city...how many figures in history weren’t involved in some kind of bloodshed? How many societies didn’t advance through slavery or war or exploitation or misdeeds?! I mean seriously who would you put up a statue for? Who would you thank for the beautiful buildings we have today, our industry, our technological advancement? I’m sure every single thing we have ever done that we might celebrate has at some point been tarnished by someones misdeeds...whether it’s the person who instigated it, funded it, worked on it...that’s the flaw of humanity. Maybe we should just hate ourselves instead.

Weren’t some of the slaves sold to the slave traders by their own people?
I was waiting for some chump to come along and say that. So what! There were some evil people around then, just as now. Actually, it was usually rival groups, rather than "their own people" It doesn't lessen Mr Colston's culpability.

Yes why not put up a statue of a slave in chains next to him? I think the best idea probably is to move the statue to a museum.

People see a meme on social media

I haven't seen any memes about Cromwell. Learned plenty about him while doing a history degree though.

See what assumptions do?

@Cakecakes2011 and we can educate children on that complexity, without keeping statutes erected to people involved in the trafficking of humans as property. I told you who I would put up a statue for: an un-named slave. Why would that stop children from learning about the complexity of British history?

SummerDayWinterEvenings. So what is it you want to happen in Britain now? What is it you are actually asking for? Only that sounds like a very extreme version of ideological erasure of British history.

“the gist of my point remains: Literally no one talked about how future generations would be deprived of the opportunity for future educational edification by it's removal.“

To your point, I say so what? If we police today’s actions by the standard of what people did or did not do 17yrs, 117yrs, or 1,117yrs age humanity would never progress.

I've studied the bastard too. Contemporaneous estimates by Cromwell's own physician general estimated 618,000. But even the very most conservative estimates are that Cromwell was responsible for the death of at least 20% of the then population of Ireland. 1 in 5 people, at a minimum.

There is no evidence whatsoever for any of this

Crossed posts @Cakecakes2011 - why have both statues. Keep the space one only. Rename the Colston Hall “Freedom Hall” and let future children read, “in 2020 the Colston Hall was renamed, in honour of... removing the reference to...” etc.