The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

No the British were not the first to abolish slavery. A lot of people have said that which makes me think that's what is taught in UK schools?

There are much earlier examples in smaller principalities like Ragusa and Lithuania. The French abolished it in 1794 (during the revolutionary era) but this doesn't really count as it was later reinstated.

The most pertinent example is Haiti, where a slave rebellion kicked out the French in 1804, the new state of Haiti abolished slavery.

@Sugartitss that is pretty offensive. So I should be hated because I am English? Why should I.

The argument could be put that the only reason that Ireland didn't invade anywhere in history, is because of its size. If it was a bigger country it would have

@Sugartitss you said "i should have an irish passport like you, then i would be loved everywhere I go."

So offensive.

So being English means that I should recieve abuse abroad?

And I was born in England but I have one English parent. So should I still be hated for being English. Or should I now be liked for being half Irish?

Nationality is so stupid. Most of us are not just from one country!

I meant to say I have one English parent and one Irish parent.

From 1808-1860 the British navy captured 1,600 slave ships and freed 150,000 Africans.

Which led to increased economic pressure on the Southern US states which led to the US civil war which left divisions in the US that resulted in the whole BLM movement which has resonated so much in the UK of late.

I see a few people on MN talking about "karma". I wonder what they would make of this.

(Incidentally the Union Navy was powerful enough to keep the Royal Navy at bay during the US civil war. A foretaste of growing US power.)

@dreamingbohemian

The most pertinent example is Haiti, where a slave rebellion kicked out the French in 1804, the new state of Haiti abolished slavery.

Am I right in thinking that they were banned from international trade because of this? No exports in or out. Perhaps banned isn't the correct word.

Haiti certainly had to pay a huge debt to France serenada as compensation. This created instability and was the excuse for the American invasion later in the 20th century. Ideas about slavery in Haiti were strongly influenced by the Enlightenment. Wordsworth wrote a sonnet in honour of Toussaint Louverture and events in Haiti were followed closely by other countries fearful their own slaves would rebel.

Haiti is being punished to this day, imo.

Ice T has been a radical for a long time (and I mean that as a compliment) so I'm not surprised to see him talking about class and poverty, which as a rule America is very bad at. People in power taking advantage of the poor and treating them as if their lives mean nothing is a tale as old as time, and after a brief century or so where it looked like that might potentially be getting better it's been heading in a getting worse direction again.

Last post was for a different thread, have asked HQ to delete.

Looks like Horatio Nelson is next in the firing line.

One the one hand, he had slave-owners for friends and spoke against Wilberforce and abolitionism.

On the other hand, he employed black sailors on his ships, treated them equally, promoted them in a career open to talent and served in a navy that put down the Atlantic slave trade once and for all. Most pertinently, his victory at Trafalgar broke the capacity of the French and Spanish states to continue slaving and made it possible for the Royal Navy to take its subsequent decisive action to make Wilberforce's ambitions real.

I suppose it comes down to a Protestant vs Catholic morality thing: Do you judge a man by his thoughts and words, or by his works?

The list of items which need to be consigned to the dumpster for failure to meet 21st century standards is already being compiled. The 'diversity' of those on the Diversity Commission is unlikely to include anyone with a conservative perspective on the purge impulse. No historical figure from the last couple of centuries will survive. I wonder how long before Rhodes and Churchill are pulled down.

Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, has launched the Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm in the wake of the toppling of the statue of Edward Colston, a 17th-century slave trader, in Bristol on Sunday.He said he could not condone the unlawful action taken by protesters but that monuments which “don’t accurately reflect our values” should be considered for removal. The mayor admitted this could include the names of “certain institutions”, but added that the review would also consider whether that amounted to “cleansing the reputation” of bodies such as the Tate galleries and Guy’s Hospital, whose founders profited from slave labour

www.toppletheracists.org/

Maybe they should take down the Robert peel statue and replace it with a monument to the many mill workers who refused to work with cotton picked by slaves in the USA, leading them and their families to live in destitution as mill owners stopped their pay and treated them terribly. Some of them would have been primary-school aged kids who risked life and limb every day. Or is that not fashionable enough ?

We had involvement along with most of Europe but I wish this subject would start to address the currently slavery and awful treatment that is still ongoing and actually change what's happening in the world now.

We can't change the past but take a look at Singapore and how the Bangladesh workers are used, scratch the surface on most countries and slavery still exists, it's maybe economic slavery but in Thailand the girls are sold, the families need money.

but I wish this subject would start to address the currently slavery and awful treatment that is still ongoing and actually change what's happening in the world now

It's curious, isn't it? That contemporary slavery is being ignored, despite its products lining the shelves of every household in the UK.

@justkeepmovingon well quite. But try and say you don’t agree with how Dubai is being built in modern slavery etc and you get absolutely annihilated on here or on social media. I was accused of Islamaphobia for saying I didn’t agree with how it’s being built on Nepalese and Filipino (and other nationalities) slavery and also been told I can know nothing about slavery because I am not black. This is one of the reasons I’ve just stopped posting anything about anything.

yeah mate, love modern day slavery us lefties. Cant get enough of it- its not just some really pathetic attempt at deflection.

oh and Dubai now as well, with its oil millions. Our communist fantasy.

This is why people can’t have a decent conversation about anything. Why are people so obsessed with saying ANYTHING is ‘deflection’. It’s dangerous. And I’m ‘a leftie’ too so don’t start with your self deprecating attempts at humour.

Funny how trans issues are never a deflection, isn’t it? We can always find time to talk about those.

I remember hearing about some polish wokers not sure what country they were in but they were working for a Chinease company on some other country,s project. being treated like slaves. Couldn,t just leave as they wereonly allowed to be there as part of the company but company not paying enough or looking after them. Slavery has never ended is just mutated.

I think you probably struggle to have decent conversations because you weirdly bring up trans people for no reason, for example.

Contemporary slavery is an important issue that literally thousands of NGOs and government agencies and activists around the world are trying to address. Saying that it is not the subject of this thread doesn't mean we are or should be ignoring it. If anything, those of you who care so much about modern slavery should be happy to see so much attention on the evils of slavery historically, as this will draw more attention to your cause.

Sadiq Khan seems to be saying pretty clearly that the Churchill statue will stay, because his historical contribution and importance is so great. I also doubt Nelson will come down. But plenty of statues and street names honour people of no real historical significance, and could be removed to a museum.

When the Berlin Wall came down, they removed all the Lenin statues from East Berlin and renamed loads of streets. You can still see artifacts of these in several museums here -- the history has not been erased (not sure how you could erase Lenin anyway). As long as you do it thoughtfully, not sure why any of this is a problem.

The Modern Slavery Act in the UK has had a big impact and the UK is at the forefront of this as indeed it was in the days of our abolition of it. We have always done particularly well at this although the press would like people to think the UK is an awful nation and its people despicable.

Removal of statues and names is certainly something people can lobby for and do it lawfully. My son bought a new built house last year and the builders named the new road after a local world war 1 young soldier which is a lovely idea. They got the street signs wrong! Two of his neighbours then copied the spelling error and the land registry rejected the first registration.... right old mess but now they have corrected the spelling on the street signs. Signs and statues do matter to people.

I bet loads more are named after men than women although a lot of UK road names are pretty boring - the fairway, high street etc which I suppose being boring are not controversial so can stay.