The English started the slave trade

[Annamaria14]

I just saw a black American woman post online,

"The English started the slave trade. They caused all our problems, they hurt generations of people. I will never set foot in that country".

What do you think? I felt a bit guilty, because the English did cause a lot of problems around the world. Have we learned from our past. How can we do better in the future

how do you challange the privilege of living here, I mean what exactly do you do todo that?

Slavery is as old as humankind.

As for 'feeling guilty', how can you feel 'guility' about something you had no part in, but was done by people who lived on the same island 400 years ago? I don't get that. Just as I don't get being 'proud' of the achievements of strangers who just happen to hold a similar passport to you.

She is factually correct. We should be ashamed of ourselves. Funnily enough we don't teach children this in history lessons... wonder why?!

Britain still has one foot firmly anchored in the past. All I can say is one 6 letter word, one that is all about Britain with it's glorified empire: Brexit.

She is factually correct

She's not though.

We should be ashamed of ourselves

Unless we ourselves are responsible for the slave trade - unlikely - then no, we shouldn't.

@BlackBucketOfCheese

And not only that, the number of users here who read the racism and do not tackle it. Reporting is all well and good but we need to see a change in these views being challenged. If you don’t challenge them with us then you are telling racists that you accept them and their views within your environments

I am absolutely with you on that, the views on here are absolutely abhorrent. But does it really make sense to challenge those who's sole purpose of coming on here is to be racist. You mention @Xenia, for this poster it is clearly a full time job. It’s important to report it because in my opinion some of these people need to be banned. You will see the moron that accused me of ‘bullying’ earlier. Why because i’m reporting disgustingly racist posts? Lol.

I would be interested to know if @MNHQ honestly think the racism on this forum these past few days Is acceptable? When you get frequent reports about certain posters what are you doing about it?

@dreamingbohemian

Saying that the slave trade is the fault of English people today is like saying a baby born in Germany today is responsible for the Holocaust.

The approach taken in Germany today is not to say that that baby is responsible for the Holocaust. But, what they say is that Germans today live in a country that once perpetrated a monstrous atrocity, and they have the responsibility to learn about that and actively work against racism today.

Is that so difficult to do? Why not do the same in the UK? It is not about blame, it is about making people understand that today's problems are linked to historic atrocities and injustice.

There is a reason that black Americans are currently focusing so much attention on the historic roots of police brutality, because to really make change happen you need to understand the deep historic depths of racism and imperialism.

Thats an excellent point.

The important word here is RESPONSIBILITY.
It doesnt matter if oher people also took slave from Africa or if it existed before etc....
The reality is that slave trade helped the UK to get rich and had an enormous effect still felt to this day (think 1- the way black people are seen in society and 2- that inequalities faced by black people started iwth the slave trade, esp in the US).
Taking responsibility for what has happened means accepting that your own country hasnt been as benevolent as you would like. It's accepting itbhas made errors, big errors. It's looking at what has happened, why and what have been the consequences.
Becuas then and only then can you start rebuilding and stop the latent rcism in the uK (and else where)

@IcedPurple it is not unusual.

I was reading about a group of German and Polish teenagers visiting Auschwitz together. When they came out, the German teenagers cried and said sorry for what their ancestors had done. The Polish teenagers told them that they had nothing to be sorry about.

I think it is a normal, and maybe a healthy reaction to feel ashamed of what your ancestors have done to other people.

The very worst slave trade, was the Arab/Muslim slave trade which lasted nearly one thousand years. The victims included slaves from various conquests and tens of millions from East African countries. Prior to that, the Romans and other empires indulged in slave trades. The Atlantic slave trade which lasted roughly two hundred years, involved Britain, France, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Belgium.
Within the continent of Africa, slave trading has been rife.
At the time the Atlantic slave trade ended, there were still many people living in abject poverty in Britain, in squalid conditions.

@IcedPurple, slavery wasn't 400 years ago....

On Nazi Loot: It was theft. German expansion was illegal under the League of Nations Charter, and Nazi rule after the Ermächtigungsgesetz Enabling Law has been held to be an illegal criminal enterprise not protected by any international agreements on sovereign immunity.

I think it is a normal, and maybe a healthy reaction to feel ashamed of what your ancestors have done to other people

Well, I totally disagree. I can only take shame - or pride - in my own achievements. I certainly do not see anything 'healthy' in feeling 'shame' over something that was done centuries ago by people who happened to live on the same island as me.

I can see the virtue signalling aspect to it though. So there's that.

and Im pritty sure the EU has told the UK to return the Elgin Marbles.

On the sins of the fathers:

It is an inconvenient truth that whereas the vast majority of white British people today are not descended from slave-owners, close to 100% of Afro-Carribbean British do have slavers as their ancestors. It was rife, a modern-day Droits des Seigneurs.

Worth remembering that when using dodgy pronouns like 'They' and 'We.'

medieval conditions before the British came along to save us as if we had no palaces, no structural buildings of any type

Medieval Conditions certainly involve palaces, majestic castles and beautiful cathedrals. All the great monasteries were from medieval times.

The thing about people who use the term “virtue signalling” is that is supposes everyone is as void as follow through as they are.

The assumption, by most people who use the phrase, is that people who fight for a cause or talk about it are only doing so to somehow appear virtuous rather than actually caring and wanting/trying to change something.

That rather suggests something about the personality of the people that use the phrase “virtual signalling” doesn’t it?
It suggests that actually you find it difficult to be honest and credible with the information you take on board and that you yourself are so used to manipulation or how you look that you suppose it of others.

That’s a tad sad.

and Im pritty sure the EU has told the UK to return the Elgin Marbles.

Look what happens when we leave the room.

The Greeks sucessfully had this included in the EU's negotiating mandate for a post-Brexit deal, just as the Spanish managed to wnagle in a reference to Gibraltar being a 'colony,' which it is not.

They can demand away.

I think the analogy of Germany, is slightly different as in there are people living today that were in the camps. Or whose parents were.
We cannot be responsible for the acts of our ancestors over 6 generations ago. We need to look at what we can do to change the present.
We were taught about slavery in my school none of the non white pupils expected the white pupils to apologise. We all saw that the concept of enslaving another human being was disgusting. Yes we need to learn the lessons of the past. However by focusing on slavery and not acknowledging that other nations played a bigger part than England is only seeing it from one perspective.
The English had themselves been taken as slaves by the romans for generations.
We need to address the present and work to make it better.

The UK has a colonial past, much of which is steeped in blood. Those who are advocating that there needs to be atonement, what form should this take? What specific practical steps do you suggest? What about British citizens whose ancestors were subjects of Britain's colonial past? What atonement should they make? It has been argued that everyone currently in the UK is directly benefiting from the wealth generated during 18th and 19th century colonialism. Those who argue that the beneficiaries of this were the aristocracy, have been told that even if their forebears were toiling in the Satanic Mills, they are equally guilty. If you believe in collective guilt, as has already been pointed out, this is a blood libel. If you believe that everyone living in the UK is a beneficiary, through the privilege of living in the UK, then the guilt falls on every citizen. Irrespective of ethnicity. How do those posters who believe this suggest that happens?

Actually the slave trade was started by trader from Arabia, down the East coast of Africa. That is why there are muslims in that area.

However, the Egyptians, Romans etc all had slaves some from Africa.

Slavery has been a human thing since they came down from the trees, you fought the next door tribe and captured them to work for you.

Remember the Jewish slaves in the bible.

Typical lefty propaganda

Whose history isn't steeped in blood?

Whose history isn't steeped in blood?

Nobody's.

I think most people do not have enough knowledge of history to expound on this.
Yes the British and many Europeans made money from the slave trade but I was reading a book about the opening up of south america and the army generals (Bolivian I think) annihilated the native tribes as they were troublesome. I'm sure this happened time and again going back in history. Because they were wiped out there is little history of them and no one demanding reparation.
The Arabs were the first African slave traders and they were trading between African countries before the British etc made use of them and their plundering. Even now the pygmys are being used and abused and almost wiped out by other native Africans. I think you have to be realistic about history it is not a simple story.

I'm not against laying the blame for some things on British adventurers but to pretend there aren't many others of all colours and creeds over time is petty.

Slavery has been a human thing since they came down from the trees, you fought the next door tribe and captured them to work for you.

It's a pre-human homonid thing. Most North Europeans today have 10-20% Neanderthal DNA.

Who captured who is anyone's guess.

"If you believe in collective guilt, as has already been pointed out, this is a blood libel. If you believe that everyone living in the UK is a beneficiary, through the privilege of living in the UK, then the guilt falls on every citizen. Irrespective of ethnicity. How do those posters who believe this suggest that happens?"

Brilliant post BovaryX. I wonder that myself and have come to the conclusion that no apology would ever be enough.