To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

My shielding dh has never stopped working. I am back working myself now I am able to.
I have no issue with others going back to work as and when deemed safe and dc going back to school in a phased manner.
What is frustrating is the way some feel that no one matters apart from their little bubble. The type that send their child who has been tested for covid to school because it suits them.
Or admits they will be taking their dc to see vulnerable grandparents and hugging them as they have had enough of lockdown.
Or those who constantly say that that those vulnerable to the virus will die soon anyway or have no economic input or value to society which is simply not true.
Incidentally may part of the reason why so many over 85 died was partly because people were discharged into care homes wuth covid and care homes were ill equipped to deal with ut.

It is incredibly selfish. People are happy to demand that they be allowed to get back to normal and the vulnerable can be locked away. Why should people have to be locked away when actually everyone could follow the rules and do the right thing? Then perhaps more of us could have a bit of freedom too.

THIS is what is truly appalling. History is full of examples of the 'inconvenient' being locked away, out of sight, so the majority didn't have to make any changes to their lives. Have we learned nothing?

There is no question that lockdown has to be lifted in order for the country to survive economically. But please don't ask the vulnerable to stay at home forever, out of sight and forgotten.

It’s very easy to think of the vulnerable as incapable as well. And I bet most people think that the shielded aren’t actually working anyway so they’re not in a position to contribute to society anyway.

But I would bet money that if it was now decided that the vulnerable all be placed on higher rate ESA because they can’t possibly be expected to work there would be uproar at that as well and they’d be accused of benefits scrounging.

It’s very easy to think of the vulnerable as incapable as well. And I bet most people think that the shielded aren’t actually working anyway so they’re not in a position to contribute to society anyway.

I think people assume that all of us shielding are usually housebound and so this is no different. I normally work, exercise, run a home, help my parents. I have no idea what will happen about my job or how I'll be paid going forward. Shielding currently runs until 30th June but government have given no indication as to what happens beyond that. My employer has now extended shielding until end of July so I presume that they anticipate government extending shielding.

If they do extend it I really think they need to be considering helping us to exercise plus some social support for those living alone.

As far as the shielded are concerned it's very much out of sight out of mind isn't it?

Yes I think you're right about the shielding being seen as incapable - again feeds into the othering. And even when it does apply to whatever extent - I am quite sick a lot of time and often housebound, unable to work full time etc - it doesn't mean that person is lesser because of that. I still have a life, I have people I love and who love me, I have passions and dreams and ambitions. My illness doesn't define who I am.

My dhs employer has done the same. He was the first packed off home with a laptop. Thankfully his role could probably be done from home long term although until lockdown wfh was frowned upon. I do appreciate others aren't so lucky.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

If those that are able to shoulder the medical risk of covid due to being young and not having a health condion that makes them more vulnerable don’t get the economy going again then we’re not going to have a social care system or an nhs or benifits or pensions.

The economy is what funds this. Those at lower risk should be persuaded out to take risks for those that can’t or many many more people will die sooner than they should

@nonotthatdr

” If those that are able to shoulder the medical risk of covid due to being young and not having a health condion that makes them more vulnerable don’t get the economy going again then we’re not going to have a social care system or an nhs or benifits or pensions.”

Agreed. As a young shielding person, I do like to pipe up and say I’m still working and keeping the economy going too! I am doing my job from home.

As is my dh as a net contributor. There lies the essence of the problen again.
Let's all assume shielding people don't work.

Nonotthatdr

I appreciate that we need to get the economy up and running but that isn't specifically going to benefit the vulnerable and shielded.

We're going to be shut away, no social interaction, no exercise, no work while you're all getting back to normal.

What specifically will be done to make our lives more bearable so that you can all go back to work and out and about?

@Madhairday

I feel very conflicted when describing my "normal" life because I don't want it to seem like I'm saying I'm any better than someone who is more seriously impacted by their illness or disability. Everyone of us is important and we shouldn't have to justify our existence. However, I only share my details because I want to dispel the myth that we're all about to die.

I am affected every day by my illness, in many ways, but I'm still able to do most things, it just takes planning.

It doesn't matter if we work, don't work, are mobile or not - our lives are important.

You only have to look at the proposed solutions to see that.

People say that “the shielded should remain so until a vaccine is found.”

Yet if you suggested that they, the non shielded, should remain so they would immediately start talking about the negative impact it will have on them and their Mh but for the shielded that is presumably just the price they should expect to pay.

I am shielding and haven’t seen my family or my DP since March. And at the moment that is how it will stay.

But I did have a job interview last week, it was a remote job interview, and in theory if I get offered the job I will be expected to go in.

So what would the people propose who think I should stay locked up until a vaccine is found? That I forego the opportunity of employment and being a taxpayer or that I remain a drain on the state?

Haenow

Sorry I don’t want to imply those that are shielded are not possibly contributing to the economy. Many are and should be encouraged to take over whatever roles in their field that can be done from home. This goes hand in hand with getting people out and about as well.

Say you’re an artist who makes things from home. You can do this sheilded and that’s fantastic. However you need the nonsheilded to be out and about to deliver materials, take stuff to be posted, work in the distribution centres, open and attend galleries etc.....we need to work together.

Hearhooves

If there is not social safety net due to the economy tanking then those that are sheilded and reliant on social support - food boxes, benefits, carers, home delivery’s etc are going to be much worse off than someone who can go out with less risk and source this stuff for themselves

Also sheilding is optional. If you feel your Health is more at risk from sheilding due to impacts on your physical and mental health from isolation then stop sheilding.

It’s only possibly to fix the stuff that is fixable. If you have a condition that makes you very vulnerable if you get covid no government or health policy can fix that. They don’t have anything else to offer other than advise you hide away until there is a treatment or a vaccine. It must be very very shit. Making it very very shit for everyone does nothing to help that though. Also the higher R the quicker we will get a vaccine through trials so there is a positive there

@ Nonotthatdr so you’re suggesting that the shielded should only work from home?

Nice sentiment, but we know that it doesn’t work like that.

Also how patronising to suggest that someone shielding might be “doing art” from home, as if crafting is the preserve of the shielded, you know, like the basket weavers of old....

There is no question that we all need to start coming out of lockdown.

But that also means the non vulnerable having to continually make sacrifices so that everyone can get back to some semblance of normality.

Social distancing needs to remain a thing. Mass gatherings need to stay banned, mask wearing shouldn’t just be a suggestion, it should be mandatory.

everyone has to give something up here. People can’t just expect for their lives to go completely back to normal while locking away those whose can’t.

Also sheilding is optional. If you feel your Health is more at risk from sheilding due to impacts on your physical and mental health from isolation then stop sheilding. in theory yes, but we all know that in practice people don’t believe that.

You only have to look at this thread and the responses referring to the disabled as “low hanging fruit” talking about how they’re all going to die soon anyway.

And other threads - there’s another one around somewhere the title of which is “I can’t believe the shielded are going to be allowed to see other people.”

And the suggestion elsewhere that the shielded owe it to the NHS to stay home because if they get sick they will take up a hospital bed which would be better for someone who is more likely to survive so going out if you’re supposed to be shielding is selfish.

There is absolutely no doubt that if I catch COVID the NHS will become involved and that I will likely not survive (the words of my consultant,) I’ve been on a ventilator before (twice) and it ain’t pretty, so I have no desire to go back there.

But if I were to start going out you can bet money that I would be called selfish for doing so. After all, I’ve been told that I’ll probably die if I catch COVID, so wouldn’t it be better to stay home so that I’m not taking up a bed and denying the chance of life to someone who is more healthy?

They way I see it is that sheilding is an if you want to. You’re high risk so if you want to shield then you will be given these protections - home delivery, food boxes, protection from being fired if you cannot go into work, home visits from healthcare if you need it (aware fully that this hasn’t happened as it should for everyone) that are not available to the rest of us. If you want to take up that offer then you are free to do so, if you don’t there’s no legal, moral or societal obligation on you to do any more than everyone else as regards to social distancing etc
(I know some people think the sheilding should be made to sheild to save nhs capacity - I don’t think that argument holds water as if nhs capacity is under threat then a general lock down is needed)

If there is not social safety net due to the economy tanking then those that are sheilded and reliant on social support - food boxes, benefits, carers, home delivery’s etc are going to be much worse off than someone who can go out with less risk and source this stuff for themselves

How many of the shielded do you think have those?

I bet even less of the vulnerable have them.

Have you seen what's in the food boxes?

If we are being kept at home so that you can get back to your normal lives then we should be properly accommodated. What about our need for exercise or social interaction?

AlternativePerspective

I completely agree with both of your posts.

@AlternativePerspective

Totally not my idea that art was a thing for disabled people, it came to mind as I’ve just had a discussion with my sister who is a fit 30yr old artist (oils mainly, not famous but makes a living) who was saying how little lockdown had affected her ability to work so it was the first thing that came to mind....substitute with anything you like...blacksmith, software engineer, author, recording artist or yes a basket maker. Absolutely no offence meant.

Also totally agree with you on mass gatherings(stay banned) and Masks (compulsory). I still think that those who are extremely vulnerable who wish to sheild should be facilitated to do so by the government.

I do not think that there is any argument that those who do not want to sheild should be made to. In my line of work I’ve advocated for several very elderly people who don’t want to sheild but whoes family’s and carers think they should, but I’m probably coming at that the other way to you - I think of you’re nearing the end of your life (talking about the elderly here not the young at high risk) and you don’t want to spend what little time you have left on earth locked away then you shouldn’t at all

For the first 5 to 6 weeks we received no support at all as dh doesn't live on his own.
Eventually we asked for help to get supermarket slot. We got food parcels for 2 weeks but they were awful. Rotten carrots and onion and dented tins etc. So we cancelled them.
Dh still attended doctors surgery for blood tests although they are now being done at home but not much support really.

You’re high risk so if you want to shield then you will be given these protections - home delivery, food boxes, protection from being fired if you cannot go into work, home visits from healthcare if you need it

I've been shielding since it was announced.

I still have not got a supermarket delivery slot. I've never had a food box because I have to have a gluten free diet (medical) and that wasn't available, protection from being fired - do we? How about pay protection - I'm being put onto sick pay as of 30th June, home visits from healthcare - yeah - no it hasn't happened, I've now missed two b12 injections.

Hearhooves

Why would the vulnerable get food parcels or delivery slots? DH is vulnerable and he’s frontline nhs with covid patients?

Fully agree that all the stuff the government said should happen for shielded people Hasn’t happened as needed and that that isn’t good enough.

What provison do you think the state should make for the exercise and socialisation of the vulnerable? Free internet and devices is one thing I thought might help ( a local charity in my village arranged devices for the shielded that don’t have them). I can’t think of anything else that can feasibly be done? Sheilded only exercise times? But as the shielded also need to be away from other shielded then that would have to be only one shielded person per park or part park so is probably unworkable and dosent do anything for socialisation.....the concept of sheilding - avoiding all human contact is incompatable with most usual forms of socialisation and exercise. I can’t think of a way to provide that and keep people isolated.

My dad rather liked his food box (sheilding for cancer and bone marrow transplant) but he does have odd tastes so maybe I shouldn’t have believed him.

Why would the vulnerable get food parcels or delivery slots?

Because on thread after thread of this nature posters call for the vulnerable to be shielded and everyone else can get back to normal. And they mean "the vulnerable"not just the shielded.

Anyway, regardless I'm shielding (letters and everything) and I still haven't got a delivery slot or anything else you mentioned so I feel justified in complaining that we haven't been well looked after and have been forgotten about.

Why is it ok that we must manage with no social interaction or exercise? Most people have been going out every day, to the shops, more recently to beaches etc and are now chomping at the bit to get back to normal because they can't stand it anymore yet somehow the shielded, who haven't been outside for ten weeks, and have to social distance from our families can just make do with zoom calls?

What should they do about exercise? I don't know. They need to have s think don't they? Maybe give us all a treadmill

Hearhooves

Well those people are wrong (sorry to anyone who thinks that) people in the vulnerability category need to women up and get on with it.

Fully agree with you that the government should be held to account for not probiding the provison they advertised for the sheilded. It’s not a reason to keep the country in lockdown though - the two have little to do with each other.

Treadmill wouldn’t suit everyone. Maybe some sort of fund to provide exercise equipment, internet and devices?