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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask for support and tips on not backing down? It's a work-related skirmish.

83 replies

FortunesFave · 05/06/2020 03:19

Long story short, I'm a freelance copywriter. I work with many businesses and agencies.

I've been freelance for 12 years. I'm very good at what I do.

One agency has recently brought in a new SEO expert. She's great at her job...really good. But as soon as she began, she was leaving notes on our Slack channel about my copy.

"Lovely work...the SEO is good but I added more commas"

Hmm

Upon reviewing her additions, they were all incorrect.

I had to spend time removing them. She also deleted a word and changed it for her own choice. Badly.

She's German and English is not her first language. So the word she deleted has different connotations in German.

Now she's just reviewed my most recent article and added new spacing...fine....but the owner of the agency...who knows that I was annoyed about the commas previously, butted in and said "Please don't alter Fortune's copy."

He later messaged me to say the SEO expert was not happy with him saying this to her and he's going to allow her to make changes to my work!

I'm NOT HAPPY. I have told him this...and I have intimated I won't be working under her. She's NOT an editor and doesn't know how to use commas so my work will be compromised. I can't share work that's shit...I can't repeatedly go back in and check her "editing" to make sure it's good...because it won't be.

He hasn't got back to me yet...he's probably stewing and panicking because he values us both.

I honestly am a little offended. He's cow-towed to her ego here and to the detriment of the work I turn in. Help me deal please!

Part of me is stomach churningly anxious because this is a good client....the other part of me is outraged. Any tips on not backing down please?

OP posts:
TeaStory · 05/06/2020 10:13

I suspect the changes to copy are for the Flesch Reading Ease score, which is part of SEO.

LemonDrizzles · 05/06/2020 10:24

Hi there, not sure if this was already mentioned but why go to your boss. Go to her. Say "can I have five minutes to talk through the changes, I want to learn/ improve..."
Then have her explain her reasoning for the commas. They you provide written evidence that the comma rules do not work this way.

Also, worth talking through the intent of the statement where she removed a word and therefore changed intent.

I work in contract management. Comments and words are just so important. i spend a long time negotiating terms to mutually benefit both/all parties.

The only instance where I would go to my boss is if I were to say, I want to approach the other side about this edit and I'm not sure the best way to approach them about it. Or if I want a second opinion about the commas and word removals before I reach out to her.

She may have good (but flawed) reasoning for her edits. Best to correct her so she doesn't continue doing this to you and others.

zscaler · 05/06/2020 10:30

@ponchek What a horrible, xenophobic post.

Original poster
FortunesFave · 05/06/2020 10:33

Wink handle it how? I've been polite with my client...I'm venting here not to him.

I've told him. I said that I'd complete the work he's got in the queue or refund him as he chooses and I said it nicely. He's asked for a phone conversation.

OP posts:
Original poster
FortunesFave · 05/06/2020 10:34

Lemon I would but we're all remote. I'm freelance and so is she. We're thousands of miles from one another. All of our interactions are via Slack or Trello. I speak to my boss...but that's all. She interacts with me on Slack but I couldn't ask for her phone number.

Nobody would ask for mine either. Apart from my boss.

OP posts:
Original poster
FortunesFave · 05/06/2020 10:39

Anyway. Thank you all for your help. It's been very useful. I appreciate all the advice and I'm glad I stuck to my principles. I can't have my name against work that might be poorly done. And I don't see why I should have to check editing done by someone who is not an editor.

So we'll see what he says on Monday. I will ask him to clarify what her perspective is since he sees both mine AND hers.

If I can understand properly what she needs to do and why, then maybe I can work past this.

He won't want to lose me basically. I know my posts here are full of errors but that's because I'm angry and venting.

My work is excellent and always has been and I know his business inside out.

OP posts:
heartsonacake · 05/06/2020 10:45

If you can update us after the phone call that would be lovely OP Smile

I just don’t understand where he or the SEO are coming from.

pinktaxi · 05/06/2020 10:50

You've done the right thing @FortunesFave

By allowing substandard work to have your name attached, you (or she) is damaging your reputation, and as a freelance, reputation is everything.

If they decide to employ you again, you get it in writing than none of your work is altered.

Hope all the commas were in the right place 🤣

andweallsingalong · 05/06/2020 11:14

Can't this be easily resolved by putting both her and your versions in front of him and asking him which he thinks is gramatically current?

He's talking like it is artistic differences, but from your updates, it's not, it's simply basic spag.

peachgreen · 05/06/2020 11:16

If they decide to employ you again, you get it in writing than none of your work is altered.

No company employing a freelance copywriter would EVER agree to this unless they were idiots.

Once the copy is handed over to the client, the client can do what they want with it. It's not an author/publisher relationship where the author retains copyright.

andweallsingalong · 05/06/2020 11:17

Correct - damn autocorrect

I actually think the biggest mistake is his in calling her out publicly instead of having a quiet word.

Seems to have got her back up that her integrity is being called into question whereas a quiet "let me have your feedback, but don't change 's work" may not have done.

CoquettishIngenue · 05/06/2020 11:20

Is the new SEO expert freelance? My husband also does this if you want to introduce an alternative 😉

peachgreen · 05/06/2020 11:21

He's not changing it....she is. And he's letting her and he can't actually because he wants my name on it. And I won't put my name against bad work.

He can ask whoever he wants to change it. Of course you can ask for your name to be removed (I would if I wasn't happy with the edits that had been made), and of course you can choose not to work with him again. But once he pays you, the copy is his, and he can do what he likes with it. That's the nature of the client/freelancer relationship.

ScarfLadysBag · 05/06/2020 11:27

There are several issues/solutions.

  1. He is entitled to do what he likes with the copy (contract depending, of course) in terms of changes.

  2. You are entitled to not like it and stop working with him and you don't have to justify it. That's the joy of being freelance.

  3. You can come to an agreement about removing your name from it if that's your primary concern.

  4. You can negotiate extra payment for checking it over after the SEO writer has made her amendments

BrightYellowDaffodil · 05/06/2020 11:33

As someone who also writes and works with language for a living, I totally get you. Having your work changed is really not on when it’s published under your name.

You’re doing the right thing. If something has for your name on it then it’s only right that it’s your actual work and hasn’t been edited (other than agreed edits with the client) by someone else. Your named work is your shop-front and what’s happening here could damage your reputation otherwise.

If you can afford to - and it sounds like you can - hold your ground with the client and tell them that your work is either respected or you will not work for them any more. If they choose the latter, let them get on with it. And count down the days until he realises his mistake Grin

The client sounds like he needs to grow a spine!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 05/06/2020 11:33

It's the client's copy once it's been handed over and they can do what they like with it. I'd have simply pointed out that the edits were grammatically incorrect and moved on. If you like working for them otherwise, keep working for them, if not move on. It's really not worth all this angst. And what @ScarfLadysBag says above.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 05/06/2020 11:36

"If something has for your name on it then it’s only right that it’s your actual work and hasn’t been edited" really puts me in mind of Giles Coren's final sentence

Waveysnail · 05/06/2020 11:37

Firstly get her to track the changes so you can see them.

DameFanny · 05/06/2020 11:42

You're not wrong to not want your name on bad copy. I don't get why he thinks SEO person is an artist though? Surely it's a technical process.

You could point out that any changes she wants have to be reviewed by a native English speaker before publication, because we've all seen city where it's obvious stuff has been shoehorned in for Google.

Were you specific about the ungrammatical commas and the misunderstood word she wanted? Why not switch on your driest passive voice and write a quick summary of the issues so far, and send it through as the basis for your talk on Monday?

PawPawNoodle · 05/06/2020 11:43

@ponchek

Fuhrerin. It was yes a charicatured reference. Reference to an aggressor coming in and riding roughshod over the legitimate authority of others, on their home patch. Cultural/historical reference and not 'racist'. I would have applied it equally whatever the nationality of the aggressor. And it is not a racist term against Germans - it is solely associated with the political affiliation of extreme right-wing Nazism.

Aka, it was a joke.

Okay, but Hitler was a racist man who was Austrian, although you have said that you'd apply it regardless of nationality, I wonder if you'd call a Jew that?

It is offensive to allude to Nazism in relation to a German person particularly when you don't know what their political affiliation, just because you do not like their approach to what is a pretty normal work-related issue. I'm not sure that you understand that that period brings a great deal of shame to German people and many Germans suffered themselves, so to effectively be called a Nazi is extremely hurtful.

redwoodmazza · 05/06/2020 11:56

I feel for you OP. I like grammar and I like things written and presented correctly.

My DH and I used to be business partners with another couple. I always had the last look at any documentation before it was sent - and thank goodness I did. Some of the punctuation and spelling was awful - and from another English couple so no language barriers to add to the problems! But it was the reputation of our business that was important.

peachgreen · 05/06/2020 12:21

I don't get why he thinks SEO person is an artist though? Surely it's a technical process.

Writing SEO-rich copy is an art form in itself. Unfortunately there's a lot of charlatans out there who think it's all about keyword stuffing and give SEO copywriters a bad name. It may well be that this person OP is working with is one of those. But either way, it's perfectly natural and understandable that an SEO specialist would make edits to copy.

littlemeitslyn · 05/06/2020 12:32

Its kow toed

rose69 · 05/06/2020 12:43

Was it commas or ... that she was replacing?

DameFanny · 05/06/2020 13:49

I'll stand corrected @peachgreen