Made redundant on furlough

[user1485861797]

Hi all,
I was told a week ago that I was going to be made redundant (along with a few others). A big shock and the redundancy process was handled very poorly. However they have said that due to the current situation they were going to take advantage of furlough and keep us on furlough for 2 months, giving us time to find other jobs.
I have had a phone call today from my boss asking me to come off furlough to train someone else to do the parts of my job that they will be taking over. AIBU to be angry about this?? Or should I just suck it up and train the other person?

We'll move this to AIBU as requested OP

Sorry if I've missed something OP, but how can they make loads of people redundant and THEN replace them? Or is it a different role entirely?

I would be absolutely fucking FUMING to be honest. If you can, ask HR or ACAS for advice. I know it's a bit of an odd situation though, so I'm not sure if they'd be able to help. YADNBU though, from what you've told us!

So they are keeping you on furlough so they dont have to pay redundancy when you fond another job? Have you been told in writing your being made redundant?

Thanks for the reply. Apparently the job is my job with sales as well. They've basically merged my job and another's into 1.
I am fuming and don't want to help them at all. Going to give ACAS a call tomorrow and see where I stand! Thanks

They dont have to pay me any redundancy as I've only been there a year and a half. Yes got the redundancy notice in writing, but in the letter they have said although they are making me redundant they will keep me on furlough for 2 months so I get the benefit of 80% pay.

As long as the job description has changed by more 50% they can do this. However, with this new created job, both of you should have been able to go for the role!
Yes they can take you off furlough for those reasons. If you refuse they could in theory give you the contractual notice, which may mean only 2 weeks money as opposed to 12 weeks at 80%.

Definitely speak to acas. More about the process would be my suggestion.

Would you want the job with the sales aspect? Aside from the training part, sounds like they are trying to survive as a business and give you some breathing space to find something.

I didn't think they could make people furloughed then redundancies. I know obviously a lot will but they've said will make you redundant but your furloughed for 2 months , isn't that against the rules?
And that they want you to train someone , well is your job available or not . I don't think that's right either furloughed and re employing people. It's totally taking advantage of the system.

I couldn't really do the sales part, there is a lot of travel around the UK involved and I've got a 2 year old so not really for me.
I'm going to chat to ACAS tomorrow, to see where I stand. Just feels so cheeky.

If they are doing a different job, they can employ new people. Presumably they need more sales in order to stay afloat and can't afford non "direct value add" support staff. Like a PP said, it sounds like they are trying to do her a favour.

I think if they’ve said they will keep you furloughed then they can’t change their minds unless you agree, so you can say no.

You have every right to be furious. And stressed and anxious - enough to be signed off sick perhaps...

Be careful on going sick. Lots of contracts state they won't pay sick on notice period. Which it looks like she is.

A similar thing happened a few years ago to me and brought back bad memories. I was made redundant because a project I was working on was wrapping up. However, it wasn't wrapping up yet, so I had to spend hours training other colleagues how to do it. Said project rumbled on for another 3 months split among 3-4 people so no full time role covered it (including one person who was gleefully keen to take over certain aspects of the project). The company waited a year, and then hired someone else to do the job I was doing. In the end, I needed to get out, but still, they behaved like utter gits.
It's shit OP, but I understand how resentful and angry you must be feeling. You need to suck it up and deliver the training.

An employer is not allowed to force you to work whilst on furlough, they can ask you to go on training courses whilst on furlough though.

The furlough system is now allowing companies to bring staff back part time from July 1st. So they could do that and you could train someone. Also furlough has now been extended and in August you can still be paid 80% but your employer has to pay your NI and pension payments.

So why don’t you try and negotiate that you train someone up to do part of your job and they keep you on for August too. It will give you longer to find a new job, and you can work for someone else whilst being furloughed from your company if your employer agrees.

What tinty said sounds sensible. If you force their hand to pay you the two weeks then they may well insist you work anyway. Try and string it out.

You’ve been there less than two years so there’s fuck all you can do they can get rid of you for any reason as long as no discrimination. Take the money and good luck finding a new job.

Sorry.

if you're not on furlough on 10 June for 3 weeks you won't be eligible to be put back on it in July.

The three weeks from 10th of July only applies to new employees who haven’t already been furloughed. If you have already been furloughed you can stay on furlough as long as your employer wants you too, and you can be part time furloughed and part time working from 1st of July.

In a day or two when you're able, put your emotion to one side (I know that's hard) and put your energy into finding a new job. It's slim pickings right now but it is picking up so get on it asap before furlough ends / becomes harder for employers and the market is saturated with everyone who has been laid off. Good luck.

OP did you speak to ACAS? Any joy?

If you worked there for less than 2 years, they can just dismiss 6ou on the dot for no reason without making you redundant.

They are proposing what sadly is the best for you. You can of course apply for other jobs and only give your week notice.

I’d be annoyed too but it’s surely worth it to get the 80% furlough pay? Sticks in the throat though I can imagine

You are not being unreasonable to be cheesed off! I’m sure we all would, but from a legal aspect there are a few things here.

1. they can take you off furlough. Obviously you are then paid normally.
2. during your ‘notice’ period you are entitled to full pay, assuming you have a standard contract and you had to agree to furlough in the first place. The point is, you agreed to vary your contract and be placed on furlough to try and save jobs. You didn’t agree to vary your contract to the point that your notice period pay would be varied in the event of losing your job. No one would agreed to be placed on 80% wages during a notice period. They would be on dodgy ground for only paying you 80% during your notice period. (Withholding wages).
3. however, what is your contractual notice period? And what is your income? If notice is only 4 weeks, and you earn less than 80%, then 2 months at 80% (and even part of that at full pay while you go back into work), would be better than 4 weeks full pay. Doesn’t make what they are doing right, but you will get more money that way. Understanding you are very cheesed off, but just get what you can from them the next 2 months.

No u arent able to do the job that they need they have cut their cloth by merging two jobs into one in which u cant do. So not sure what ACS are gonna say as u arent able to do the job they want u to.