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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Book choice for 14 year old boys - lesbian novel

142 replies

NC29 · 03/06/2020 23:31

I need some distance and other ppls thoughts.
In an all boys school the 14 year olds in english lit will be reading a novel about the hardship of being a lesbian girl in a catholic household.
Why?
I don't object to the topic, or the book (haven't read it yet, just arrived today - hope it's good)
My issue is I don't understand the choice. It feels forced* and there is so much literature that I would consider foundational that they haven't read yet that this is out of place. Maybe in a year or 2 it'll be more understandable to them, but now?
I am happy for them to read all kinds of stuff, but I think you need context and some life knowledge/experience for certain stuff.

*it seems that there is a culture emerging where kids have to be tolerant towards one or other specific trait, not the person. I don't agree with this approach. They should be taught that one trait doesn't matter by itself. A person is not black OR gay OR nice OR nasty. We are all a mixture of many things. Putting colour or sexuality at the forefront without the understanding of why it matters and why it is good that nowadays it's not a stigma (or why it should not have ever been and should not be now) is more logical to me.

I want my kid to be tolerant, kind (and a lot of other things :)) and behave normally with others because he sees the other person as a whole - not their color or their sex preference. And I want him to be in a world where he can say he doesn't like xyz and it won't come down to "oh, you don't like him because he is gay". Tolerance works both ways. **
And let's be fair: how is it any of my (or anyone's) business who another person chooses as a partner?

And this is coming form a person who just gave him Murakami to read. (and he likes it.) So no issues with actually him reading any book. (ok, maybe I would not be too happy if he was reading Dosztojevszkij or the memoirs of a serial killer....).
Not for a second do I think it is going to hurt him, but i think it'll fly past their heads and it would be more value a bit later.

**I honestly get the fierce need of oppressed minorities wanting more respect or just to be left alone to be who they want to be. I also see there is a shift to be too pc. There must be a middle ground where these things can be treated factual and without connotations. (ok, naivety off)

so question is, what do you think the motivation behind this selection could be? And what would your thoughts be on this being the mandatory English lit book of the term?

OP posts:
NC29 · 04/06/2020 10:52

Thank you everyone for the interesting and even for the sometimes not so kind words.
I still don't have a problem with them reading this book, it was a questions of why now. And I needed to get out of my head, which this topic helped with.
I especially liked the questions to me that asked which scenario/topic would bother me most :)
The whole GCSE modern lit list is strange to me. Not judging, but more missing names like Merle (the Virility Factor), Asimov, McCormack, Stephenson,....
this is probably because I'm not from the UK ....

(Sorry if I offended anyone with Dosztojevszkij, I'm from eastern europe, we had to read it at around 13-14 and I was so not ready for it, left me scarred forever. I did re-read as an adult though and can appreciate it, but can never like it.)

OP posts:
Veterinari · 04/06/2020 11:06

I still don't have a problem with them reading this book, it was a questions of why now

Because it's in the list for his educational stage.

Would you prefer for books from a different educational stage to be offered? Confused

LaurieMarlow · 04/06/2020 11:09

I still don't have a problem with them reading this book, it was a questions of why now.

What’s the issue with now? When would you prefer?

PanicOnTheStreets85 · 04/06/2020 11:18

this is probably because I'm not from the UK ....

I think this explains a lot tbh. Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit is regarded as a modern British classic that people will be familiar with (even if just from the TV adaptation). I honestly don't think many British people will have ever heard of Merle. And the books you suggest are mostly Sci-Fi, whereas the GCSE syllabus is mostly intended to reflect recent/modern British society.

Neap · 04/06/2020 11:30

I'm not from the UK either, but I still don't have weirdly entrenched and implicitly homophobic ideas about it being somehow unsuitable for a fourteen year old to read a classic of modern British literature by a lesbian writer which features a lesbian protagonist.

Not judging, but more missing names like Merle (the Virility Factor), Asimov, McCormack, Stephenson,....

This would seem a pretty odd lineup for GCSE English to me.

Spidey66 · 04/06/2020 11:37

It's been a long time since I read Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit, but my memory of it is more about her parents strict religious beliefs and the protagonist's sexuality was, in a way, secondary to this. I'm not a parent, but if I was, would not have an issue with a 14 year old reading it at school. I think (but not certain) it maybe a GCSE set text? I maybe wrong on this though.

PanicOnTheStreets85 · 04/06/2020 11:57

Also, someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that all the books on the GCSE syllabus are written in English and not translated from another language, whereas The Virility Factor would need to be read in translation.

Lynda07 · 04/06/2020 12:13

NC29, read the book yourself and you will see that it is about a small section of society in Northern England at a particular time. It's quite funny in parts and very well written. Lesbianism is a small feature, it so happens the main character - who starts off as a little girl - turns out to be one but the story would work if she had not been a lesbian but had done something to buck the very narrow trend of the society in which she was brought up.

I read it and watched the TV drama series, it's worth watching if you can access it. It's on Amazon Prime.

TomPinch · 04/06/2020 12:18

I think the most important thing is that it's a brilliantly-written book, a genuine classic, full of insight, basically, great literature in the traditional meaning of the term.

What it's about is secondary.

TomPinch · 04/06/2020 12:24

Nb. I had no trouble relating to it when I read it as a heterosexual male in his late teens. It's that good. Must read it again. I believe Jeanette Winterson has recently published a rewrite of Frankenstein involving androids. Must read that too.

AmericanAdventure · 04/06/2020 12:45

Think that's more likely to put them off for life 🤣🤣🤣🤣

AmericanAdventure · 04/06/2020 12:52

Sorry that message was for those suggesting naked dancing in waterstones.

Op, all of this discussion is pointless until you have actually read the bloody book. How can you possible judge the suitability or literary merit of something you haven't read?

MetalMidget · 04/06/2020 13:29

I think my brother read it at school in the 90s!

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/06/2020 14:13

@Zilla1

I'm puzzled by you singling out Dosztojevszkij while possibly impressed with using that spelling.

Do you think he'll read too many books with lesbian protagonists compared with straight protagonists over his studies?

I just think someone Googled him and thought the Russian spelling sounded more, you know...

I still want to know what's so terrible about him. I read Solzhenitsyn, Dostoevsky and Sholokhov at that age. Wouldn't have the energy now! I reread the Bothers Karamazov recently and OMG it's long.

CountFosco · 04/06/2020 16:45

I think my brother read it at school in the 90s

Didn't it go straight from the 'banned' list to the 'set text' list when section 28 was overturned (2000 in Scotland, 2003 in England)?

TatianaBis · 04/06/2020 16:49

it was a questions of why now

Why not now? It’s a Bildungsroman that ends when the main character goes to university - what better time to read it than as a teen?

NC29 · 04/06/2020 16:50

@MrsTerryPratchett
I hated the russians when it was mandatory to read them. The country where I'm from just had enough of socialism when I started high school and "russian rule", we felt like we had a chance of rebuilding the society and then in school it was still these old, antiquated texts like the ones you mentioned and Pushkin, Csehov,.... I think a lot of my generation really hates russian literature in that country because of the cross reference, and not because of the actual material. I am sure that my bias stems from that to some extent.

2 years ago I went to an O'Neill play because Jeremy Irons was in it. I almost ran out halfway through it just so reminded me of the 3 sisters :) I sat through, and loved it because of the superb acting from everyone, but realized that the genre didn't sit well with me let it be from USSR or USA.

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 04/06/2020 16:53

I just think someone Googled him and thought the Russian spelling sounded more, you know

It’s not the Russian spelling, that is Достоевский.

NC29 · 04/06/2020 16:53

@PanicOnTheStreets85
that's another small problem I have here, but it is english lit, not world lit. I do think that having had to read from all across the world in highschool as part of the curriculum was a good thing. Just because it's a translation it can be awesome. :)
and to be fair i am free to suggest whatever book I want to my son, so problem abridged.

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 04/06/2020 16:57

I get the E.European antagonism for the old Soviet imperialism. That is totally understandable.

But your son is British and there’s nothing a 14 year old couldn’t deal with in Dostoyevsky. Other than the long thesis in Bros K.

raspberryk · 04/06/2020 17:08

I haven't read the full thread, I couldn't really get past the use of the word tolerance. I would hope you have instilled and wish your dc to be more than just tolerant of others.

Embracelife · 04/06/2020 17:22

,Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit, asemi-autobiographical novelabout a sensitive teenage girl rebelling against conventional values

It really is not a "lesbian novel" whatever that means.

The sexuality is not the biggest issue the child deals with. If she had been heterosexual and had a boyfriend would have been equally traumatic

Aretheystillasleepbob · 04/06/2020 17:37

Thanks for the reminder of what a great book it is - I’m off to order the eBook for a re-read

ShinyMe · 04/06/2020 17:41

Oh it's years (possibly even decades) since I read any Jeanette Winterson books. I really really want to reread Oranges now, so thank you OP for reminding me. It's a wonderful book.

I really liked her early books. Oranges, and then I loved the one about the gardener that brought in Tradescant (you can visit a wonderful museum with a garden about him in London) that was all magical realism and dancing princesses and weird stuff. I've just checked my bookshelf, and that's Sexing the Cherry.

Also loved the one about Noah, Boating for Beginners. Apparently I also loved The Passion, because I've written 'wow!' on the last page... I have no recollection of it at all, but I think I'll reread them all now.

spongedog · 04/06/2020 18:01

From OP only. My young 14 year old wouldnt cope with this in a billion years. Not because of the lesbian slant, but they dont have the maturity and/or experience to even understand why a novel like this might be important/relevant. At their age it is wasted on them. Perhaps when older fine. But I would rather their school focus on more standard texts, so at least they have some cultural references.

I dont want my child to hate a novel like this as I do a Midsummer Nights Dream - forced to study when 11 - even over 45 years later I cannot bear it.