Discrimination?

[GrumpyCowToday]

Do you think this is discrimination?

The job is for a managerial position in a care home.

Candidate A
30 years old with 2 children
7 years relevant experience
HE Certificate in Dementia
Registered nurse (with a degree)
First Aid certified

Candidate B
55 years old with grown up children
10 years relevant experience
no other qualifications (literally none!)

Candidate B got the position.

Not really, they seem almost matched. More experience will often trump a degree if that degree is not necessary for the role. Also depends on how the people interviewed on the day and who was most suitable. Managerial jobs also require a certain personality type and approachwhich varies from place to place. For example, a manager who rubs people up the wrong way or who is not effective isn't great, degree or not.

When she asked for feedback about why her application was rejected she was told the hired candidate has more experience.

But she does. 3 years is a substantial amount of time. Then add the 20 more years of life experience on top of that. And as already said, personality matters very much - if being ‘more qualified’ was all that mattered then interviews would be pointless waste of time, you could just hire after reading an application.

If candidate A got the job, candidate B could in theory also claim discrimination on the grounds of age.
As other pp have said, it depends entirely on how they interviewed x

10 years experience trumps 7? I'm actually pleased an employer looks at qualities beyond the ability (and opportunity) to pass exams as a youngster. Interviews are very important, perhaps b was more competent in the interview. As an older woman I'm glad older women are getting a chance

And if candidate A already works there she can still administer the insulin so that is a pointless comment.

Either candidate could argue discrimination if they didn't get the job!! A could say it was down to having children and B could use age discrimination as a reason. You've automatically assumed discrimination but there's not much to go on here. There could be lots of reasons why B got the job...cost (I would imagine would be on basic salary with no experience), attitude in the interview. Why assume it's because a has children?

I'm actually pleased an employer looks at qualities beyond the ability (and opportunity) to pass exams as a youngster.

Pretty sure a nursing degree is a bit more than a few exams.

Anyway, in this scenario it's not unfeasible that B was more suitable to the role. I have interviewed quite a few people who have great qualifications, seemingly decent experience, I can imagine them fitting into the team buuuut they just weren't right for the roles they were going for; doesn't mean they were worse than other candidates overall, but in regards to the role specifically. It can be harder to get a job as a woman with children, I think it's extremely naieve to believe otherwise, but there isn't anything here that makes that abundantly clear.

The older lady won’t have to take time of work if her children are ill,so I expect that’s why she got the job

A good manager is the person who is good at dealing with people. The manager doesn’t necessarily need to be that skilled with the task at hand, just know it enough to facilitate the work of others.

I am at least as skilled, if not more skilled, at my current job as my manager. However, I am awful with people. I have absolutely no desire to care about personnel dynamics or people’s feelings. A good manager takes care of all of that so that the work can be done efficiently and happily. If you promote the person who is most qualified or most skilled at the job, you may very well be selecting the person least capable of being an effective manager.

Surely the best person for the job got it, the older lady will have vast amounts of experience (even from other roles) that she can bring, in fact several decades more if person A (at just 30) also spent several years studying and pregnant/ on Maternity leave.

Trouble is, where one may need flexibility due to kids, the 55 year old will have less energy and more aches and pains. So I wouldn't imagine any discrimination.

I can't see any evidence of discrimination on the information provided. And since you weren't at the interviews you can't draw any conclusions about the decision making process.

Saying B only got the job “because they don’t have young children” is doing them a massive disservice and completely undermines their experience and skill.

As PP have said, being a manager is about much more than qualifications, and it’s good to see a company taking that into account.

I have been managed by some absolutely brilliantly skilled people, who are a technical expert in their field... but they’ve been absolutely shit managers because they lack the people skills or strategic insight to lead a team. My current manager isn’t very technically skilled (bless him ) but he is a fantastic people manager and has great vision.

I’m not saying A must be shit because they have a degree; it’s possible B just showed that extra “something” which is why they got the job.

Am I right in understanding that B was an external candidate as well? Sometimes that can be a factor as well - “promoting from the ranks” can sometimes be messy and it requires candidates to go above and beyond to prove they would be able to be objective and go from colleague to boss. External candidates don’t have the same hoops to jump through.

Are you candidate a?

@krankykittykat this is what I was thinking

Did essential criteria in the job description include specific qualifications? Did it ask for at least x years' experience? If answer today first is no & they were seeking at least, say, 5 years experience then perfectly level playing field & will have come down to skills demonstrated during interview.

To the not today!!

Depends on the interview, the depth and range of answers, your references, how they see you fitting or not into the team or staff in place, any extras you might bring, what developments management have, How your personality came across etc.

Even the most qualified person might not be the right person for the job. No one can answer you question .

Are you candidate a?

No, no I'm not Candidate A, although I also work there. A fair few colleagues and I told A she'd get the job easily - especially during the pandemic (who wants start a new job where there's Covid-19?) so we were a bit shocked that she didn't.

I don't know if Candidate B knows that A applied. And yes, to whichever pp asked, Candidate B is external.

Not enough detail. We dont know how they both came across at interview or any other background relevant information

Depends how they both interviewed.

A fair few colleagues and I told A she'd get the job easily

Perhaps you shouldn’t have done that. You built up her hopes when you had no idea whether or not she’d get the job.

Qualifications and experience aren’t everything (and B certainly has more experience). It’s about who you are as a manager. Degrees are worthless if the person can’t actually be a good manager.

Also, you cant be a registered manager of a care home without certain qualifications.

(An NVQ level 4 plus the management award)

Given she already works there it’s maybe more that they just don’t think she’s ready for the step up. Maybe time for her to look elsewhere