Found hole in garden

[PearlHeart3]

Hi all, posting here in traffic as I posted something over in the garden section that never had a response.

We are in the process of ripping up decking in our garden that was laid by previous owners approximately 8 years ago. We discovered a hole straddling the boundary separating our garden with the neighbour's. At first we thought it might have been an old sewage pipe and the hole an access point, but I've shoved a torch down there and took some photos. There appears to be an armoured cable in there which is coming out/in to my neighbours side.

The hole is approx. half a metre wide but underneath it goes back further in a round shape and is approx. 2 metres wide. The next door neighbour appears to have put concrete over the top on their side and lots of gravel. I've attached some photos of the area to give you an idea of scale. It's really hard to describe!

Does anyone know what it might be? Or who I should contact about getting it checked out? Would a surveyor know? Feel free to ask more questions!

I’m not sure about this but maybe give it some thought...

I wouldn’t call your home insurance company unless you actually want to claim for something. Sometimes just calling them asking for info Or advice seems to trigger an incident. At least it did with me. I had to get the insurance company to confirm it wouldn’t make any difference to how much my renewals will be but it still shows on my records even though I wasn’t making a claim.

The surveyors (who did your home buyer survey maybe) often have good local knowledge of things like this. Is that all the depth of it - a foot or so? Your don't live somewhere called Old Well Lane or Shaft Pit Lane or similar?

Sewer?

Well considering the way 2020 is going so far I'd think the most likely answer is it's a portal to Hades, surely?

Ok sorry-don’t call insurers!

My resident builder (dh) agrees with sabbatical that it's an old well, the lead pipe is a remnant of the pump.

Could be an earthing cable? And water has eroded around it?

we have rats tunneling under our fence, imagine the size of them if they made holes that size !

Looks like an old dumb well.

I am a surveyor and they are very common.

Sorry to say it looks like you've got Hobbits.

An old air raid shelter from the war?

my initial thought was a well, perhaps the cable has been laid within it after it has become unsused?

OH has taken a look and said to expose the wire further and there may be a tile stating if it’s an electric cable etc. Apparently the older wires used to have this.

Sorry to say it looks like you've got Hobbits. 
Now that would be fantastic 😃

I too thought it might be an old air raid shelter. Is it big enough for that?

Friends of ours tried selling their home, to discover they had a mine shaft in their back garden they'd be unaware of!!! Hopefully its not that!

Try the diy page & see if Piglet John is still around, he seems to know the answer to all things building/plumbing related.

[quote NotMeNoNo]It could be an old manhole/chamber to do with redundant drainage. Manholes have a smaller entry and then a larger diameter underground. It could also be a well or a mine shaft (if you live in a mining area). you might find a clue on www.old-maps.co.uk.
Do you know if you live over water bearing ground where someone might have made a well? see www.bgs.ac.uk/research/groundwater/shaleGas/aquifersAndShales/maps/aquifers/home.html[/quote]
I think another poster after you has suggested this as a possible explanation too.

I had a look at the old-maps website, it's fascinating! I can't see the level of detail I need without taking out a subscription but I will register later tonight as these things fascinate me and I'm very interested in the local history of our area. Thank you for sharing these links.

As far as I know, I don't live over water bearing ground.

when they are open again (!!!) County records office, local history group etc often have old records & photographs & maps (amazingly interesting photo old aerial ones too)

I will respond to the other posters' questions later tonight, but I just wanted to update you with a copy of the title deeds. I've removed the road names for obvious reasons.

There is a shared drain with my neighbour which was mentioned in the title deeds (1906) but it is not near the hole I found. I've marked a green dot on the image where the hole is. I've yet to take up the decking where the drain line is marked, but I'm not sure what I'm going to find there.

I've also included a copy of the plan/layout of my house and my neighbours so you can get an idea of the set up as of 1906. The layout has remained the same though.

And here are the links to the full size images if you can't make out the writing in the images I've attached:

www.mumsnet.com/uploads/talk/202006/large-69646-deeds.jpg

www.mumsnet.com/uploads/talk/202006/large-391289-deeds2.jpg

I'm going to respond to everyone's questions in one message as it's taking too long to reply quote them all - sorry. I'll try and @ correctly.

@SynchroSwimmer This particular hole does not show on the title deeds for my property. They do show and reference other things (see my previous post to this one) and that's since 1906 when the house was built. So maybe the hole came after?

Re: insurance, agreed. I wasn't going to contact the insurers until I had all the pertinent information. And even then, I'll only mention it if I feel I need to take out an indemnity against it.

I figured I'd have to fill the hole at least partially because I'm hoping to lay a patio over it. Not sure how I'm going to do that yet. The neighbour has most of the hole opening on his side and there's a concrete path over the top of his bit.

@AwwDontGo Thank you, yes. I did think about this. I'll call them as a last resort and if I feel an indemnity is required.

@NotMeNoNo Yes, I thought about contacting my surveyor. It was about 3 years ago I bought the property but he was really knowledgeable about older buildings especially. I'll dig out his email and send him a message. Happy to pay for his time of course.

@cabbageking A sewer was my initial thoughts but there is a drain already marked within my property boundary so I'm not sure it is. There is a manhole cover a bit further up from the hole which takes mine and my neighbours waste away though.

@occa Maybe we are the Hades and sanity is on the other side.

@Haggisfish :D

@EthelMayFergus Thank you. There are a few posters now mentioning it looks like a well. The hole is definitely spherical in shape under the ground. If it is an old well, can I fill it in? If it's not a well, can I still fill it in?!

@Doggodogington It looks too spherical to be erosion.

@recycledteenager24 Our neighbours on the other side mentioned a rat problem a few months back. Eek! I always worried they were making a home for themselves underneath my decking. I can't wait to get rid of it. I hate decking (sorry for anyone that chose to have it.)

@Bertucci Thank you. I googled a dumb well and from what I can understand, it was to drain water from the surface, rather than a well which is used to collect water from an underground source? If it is a well, what do you think that cable is? Could it be an electricity cable for next door? I probably shouldn't fill in the hole, but could I at least cover over the entrance to the hole on my side so I can lay patio?

@WhoWouldHaveThoughtThat Can I charge the Hobbits rent?

@tara66 It looks a little shallow to be an air raid shelter. I know you can't really tell the depth from the photos, but it's about a metre deep (there are lots of old bricks and what not on top though so it might be a bit deeper?

@Thighdentitycrisis This is certainly a possibility. I'd like to be able to see what's underneath on my side but the fence gets in the way of me getting my head down there and taking a look. I may have to rig up my camera and take a few photos within the hole.

@Elouera Eek. Definitely not a mine shaft. There used to be an old elastic factory over the road though.

@Timesdone Thank you. I'll post over there too.

@mumwon Thanks. I love looking at old archive photos and paperwork. I'll see what I can find when life returns to normality.

There is a manhole cover that you can buy with an inset tray on the top....so you cut the patio stones to fit the tray, set it level with the rest of the patio, and can still lift it if you need access in the future....if that helps at all...

It appears to me to be a cavity under the concrete. It appears to me that it was not built like that, but the concrete fell into it. There appears to be a lead pipe that was originally embedded in the concrete. The hole appears to be wet at the bottom.

IMO that is typical of a long-term plumbing leak that has washed away the soil.

It might be from the old water pipe or it might be from a drain.

Work out the routes of your drains and your water supply and it may become clearer. I'd think drains first.

Find out if that is a live water pipe. If so, don't do anything to damage it, such as throwing rubble into the hole.

It is typical of holes caused by leaks that people spend 50 years trying to cover it up, patch the concrete and fill in the hole before they get round to digging up the pipe and replacing it.

Update

Looking at the plans, of course it is a drain.

There is a common sewer running along behind the houses. You can see soil pipes and/or rainwater pipes on the side of your house. No doubt the adjacent house has the same. They would run down the alleyway to the sewer. The pipes from the two houses will join together and run approximately down the middle of the alley, where the hole is.

The plans suggest a manhole in the neighbours garden where the house drains join the common sewer, it looks like it might be slightly displaced from the centre line so the lid did not have a fence on top of it.

Look for red worms in the soil, and vigorous, self-seeded wild tomato plants. They both love moist, well-manured ground.