To think that advice to walk for shielders is last minute and unhelpful?

[StayinginSummer]

My mother and friends are shielding, and have been really confused by the latest message to go out for a walk and see another person. I’m not a fan of the governments response overall, and I see this is another way too vague and ill thought out message.

Firstly - going out for a short walk on your own at a quiet time is a far lower risk than meeting up with another person not from your household. They have lumped it together as if it is the same thing.

Secondly - the people I know would love to get out, however many of them are elderly and this very last minute advice has put them on the back foot. The ones I have spoken to have been slowly for weeks putting in place strategies to cope with not going outside ever. Now they feel that staying in puts them in the position of being ‘overly cautious’ or now having to justify to others why they may not feel they can.

Shielders are one of our most vulnerable groups, and we again have let them down I think. They should have got a very, very clear set of messages, it could have been a short video, a leaflet - with options to go for a walk or meet another person - but clearly showing which was lower and greater risk, with advice on how to be as safe as possible.

They could also be clear to shielders that we do not have a robust contact and tracing system in place so any hotspots near them will not be clear until this is done.

[curtainsforme]

take it you don’t care about anyone how genuinely doesn’t. Like my mother. And my other friends. They are totally confused and no they are not thick. Jeez this is not only about you and yours.

Why are they confused? There is literally nothing confusing in anything you have said.

[FourTeaFallOut]

0.6% prevalence in my area according to the Zoe map which is down by half from last week. It bounces up and down a little which is to be expected but definitely a significant drop.

[FrodoTheDodo]

It's not confusing. It's really not. That's why people don't understand what you're banging on about. You're getting yourself worked up over nothing.

[StayinginSummer]

@FrodoTheDodo you are the one being nasty and reveling in belittling my concern for shielders who are concerned and confused.

If it doesn’t affect you, well aren’t you so lucky!

Maybe you aren’t as vulnerable. The shielders are no would almost certainly die of they got it so yes decisions for them are a huge deal.

[FrodoTheDodo]

Nope. Look at my posts. Not been nasty once, just said its not confusing. You're the one chucking insults around and your toys out of the pram because no-one agrees with you.

[curtainsforme]

OP you are being ridiculous.

[majesticallyawkward]

There is so much information out there that shielded can surely make an informed decision themselves. There have been outcries that it's not fair shielders can't go out when others can, now they have been given the nod to go out it's too confusing. the government can't win.

Pre covid these people weighed up risks without every step being dictated to them. This isn't that different really.

[StayinginSummer]

There is no clear information out there, are you serious?

No one can make an informed decision at the moment. It is a mess. Several shielders on another thread all saying the same.

I do have a good relevant medical background so I am lucky enough to be more informed than most. The data just isn’t out there in quality enough and the government has been all over the place with advice.

[MahMahMahMahCorona]

@StayinginSummer - the overwhelming response is that you're choosing not to understand some fairly basic guidelines.

Nobody who is shielding has less or more of a challenge than another person shielding - and when I say that I mean the social / civic responsibility that each individual has for their own decision-making. There may we'll be difficulties for parents shielding children as the decision is down to the parent rather than the child; however essentially it remains up to the individual to work out the risks.

If person A, shielding in a high rise flat for the past ten weeks fancies going out for a stroll with Doreen from two floors down, they might choose to take the stairs rather than the lift, and meet in a local park whilst wearing a mask.

If household B, shielding children in a small semi with a small garden decide that they would be happy to take a drive to the nearest beauty spot, weighing up the risks and perhaps leaving at 5am (or 7pm) to get there far earlier or far later than the crowds, they might choose to do that.

If person C, suffering from MH issues brought on by isolating in lockdown just fancies getting outside and going for a bike ride, they can.

If household D decide they're not willing to take the risks just yet, got their guidance letters mid April which takes them to mid-July, so they're quite happy just continuing to shield - then that's their prerogative.

I don't see - honestly - why there's an issue with your understanding?

[StayinginSummer]

@FrodoTheDodo yes you have been quite bitchy on a pile on with others. I hope you are proud.

I don’t mind debate. I do mind school yard behaviour.

There is a whole other thread full of people having more of an informed debate on this topic.

[PhilCornwall1]

Shielders are one of our most vulnerable groups, and we again have let them down I think. They should have got a very, very clear set of messages, it could have been a short video, a leaflet - with options to go for a walk or meet another person - but clearly showing which was lower and greater risk, with advice on how to be as safe as possible.

Is this needed? The adults shielding are just that, adults and should be able to make informed decisions and assess their own risk based on their condition.

Many of us that have been advised to shield have had to assess risk to do with our health just to live on a daily basis, well before COVID-19 came on the scene. This isn't any different.

[Panicbuying]

Staying, I think what’s got your post off on the wrong foot with a few posters who are shielding is just the implication that we’re not capable of understanding the new guidance (generally speaking there’s been a lot of “othering” of the shielded ranging from infantilising us right through to people who respond to all the deaths being reported with an attitude of “well yes but most of them has underlying conditions so those deaths don’t really count”). I agree with you that the government response has been a shitshow and there doesn’t appear to be any scientific basis for the changes announced yesterday, but I’d prefer people to disagree with the change because of the lack of evidence, not because they think shielded people aren’t capable of understanding it.

[StayinginSummer]

@MahMahMahMahCorona because I’m not talking about me?!

I’m talking about all the shielders that I know and all the ones on similar current threads who have been thrown by the latest ‘advice’ that has not helped them make an informed choice at all. And I’ve not seen anyone who actually agrees that the government put out helpful grounded advice for shielders this weekend.

Some have just ignored it, fine. Others have been extremely frustrated by it as they have found it didn’t follow the governments own plan (shielders to go out at a much later phase) - they provided no rational for it - which would have greatly helped - and have then wondered what to do and whether to change.

I know because they all asked me as my background is medical for advice as they were all frustrated and confused.

[ClientQ]

I think the issue is also other people and work
I've seen a lot of people posting in the shielding groups saying their friends/family are v much "you're free! Let's meet up! We can have a BBQ!"
And I've seen three people shielding who have had calls from their job asking them to go back in "because they can now"
Add to that the fact that people think everyone elderly should be shielding and everyone shielding is disabled, elderly or at deaths door...

People don't even social distance in the doctors and when I asked someone to move back, he told me a "young healthy girl like me shouldn't be scared of a virus" as he breathed down my neck at reception

[StayinginSummer]

@Panicbuying but there was nothing in my post to say that shielders were too thick to understand. And it’s not up to make sure people don’t jump to that assumption - people are far too quick to pile on and get shirty. It’s very aggressive. Did they think I was saying my own mother for example was too stupid to understand?

I don’t think the posters who complained care about other shielders who have been confused. And let me tell you many are and many feel they should follow the government as it can be incredibly hard to make your own informed choices. I don’t think it is very nice to belittle people shielding because they are not confident about that. The opposite in a way, many shielders are wanting to hear latest advice and follow because they know that this is a complex situation and trust experts. Nothing wrong with that!

Except now they are thrown something very last minute. Some of the people phoning up have been a bit distraught. They know that their physical and mental wellbeing would be better going for a walk, even seeing someone else. I would personally absolutely hate it. It has made many people that I know felt they should act sooner than their instincts are telling them.

[FrodoTheDodo]

No I haven't been bitchy. Not at all. That's you.

[StayinginSummer]

@ClientQ yes I know, I completely agree. Someone I know is expected back at work this week now, when he hasn’t even seen his own children in two months as he’s so high risk. He’s not going back but he’s having to explain why to them, which is not fair on him.

[Hopefulworker]

Agree OP! I’m furloughed at the moment but hold a pretty senior role in Comms (board level in a regulated sector) and have got in contact with the local government several times asking if I could volunteer to help them with comms, production of videos, leaflets etc. All free of charge of course and they would be free to use it, or chuck it in the bin. No response though

[PhilCornwall1]

Did they think I was saying my own mother for example was too stupid to understand?

I think it's where you said a short video or leaflet to explain, as if the shielded need it spelled out what this all means. It was a little patronising.

[StayinginSummer]

@hopeful that is very depressing to hear. Especially as now would be a good time to present some of the information that we have in a visually clear way. We are getting more evidence all the time, I really don’t get why people would put down public information in a clear format. It isn’t always simple - how long it lasts on surfaces, from people, outside, inside, prevalence rates, amount of time, viral load... these are all being learnt about all the time! I’d love a quick snap shot update of risks personally... it would inform choice much better than a vague you can go out message - which can be interpreted by work, socially, etc to mean different things.

[StayinginSummer]

@PhilCornwall1 what the hell is wrong with a leaflet?! Tell me how a leaflet with good quality complex information presented in a clear informative way is worse than some minister saying ‘you can go out for a walk with your mate’? Because it is more complex weighing up risks than just got for a walk with your mate.

[MrsFrankDrebin]

I'm sorry OP but I have read back all of the posts by @frodo and not one is insulting or implying they are part of a 'pile on', as you put it. I wanted to give you fair hearing, but directing ire at @frodo isn't fair.

[ponchek]

It's all bollocks.

[ponchek]

Of course the only totally safe thing is to stay inside until there's a vaccine and or treatment and or it's gone.

[MarshaBradyo]

If people need time to consider it then take the time. Warning isn’t really required because you don’t have to change yet if you don’t want to.