To wonder about how all primary school year groups going back before summer holidays would work?

[Coffeebiscuitsrepeat]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52844043

Apologies if there is already a thread on this.

I don't see how 14 x classes of 15 be phsyically possible in terms of space/safety, if all school year groups were sent back for the last 4 weeks of term 6. Are the government banking on half the children not being sent in? It sounds like there are already calls to scrap the plan anyway.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts!

@FraterculaArctica

Our primary have allowed for this by doing a part time schedule for the first year groups to go back - 2 full days in each week.

Same here. Our head didn't want to have them in full time with teachers having to teach out of their year group, just to have to go part time if other years came back. As it is the highest numbers we are going to have in is in the key worker group, which is rapidly rising and we are having to leave extra classrooms in their area for them to have more bubbles, which because of the school layout means the year groups coming back can't be in their usual classrooms.

I think the unions will have something to say if the Government advise social distancing in schools is not required in the next few weeks and you can have bubbles of 30 (many schools have class sizes larger than 30 by the way)

I'm not expecting DD2 (YR3) to be back before September although I think our school is happy to follow the government and open when they are told to.

I just don't see how things will change in the autumn either?

I think the government is that bloody minded about everything they've stopped taking advice...in fact I think they must have stopped taking advice very early on - otherwise I'd love to have a conversation with the scientists that recommended moving frail people of unknown or positive covid status into care homes full of people covid is highly likely to (and has) killed. And those that said it was perfectly reasonable to allow 3000 fans from Spain to travel to watch a football match!

The only way of returning the numbers of children the government is wanting back to school is to abandon the social distancing or pretending that children attending 1 day are week are technically "back at school".

@Yurona Wow. Is that a state school? So you have two adults full time for every single class, assuming non are shielding/ pregnant, and assuming no class size over 30. Plus two classroom spaces for every one current class. Plus the supervision ratios over lunch for every group of 15 children to be supervised separately while the teaching staff have a minimum 30 minute break. Plus the built in capacity to still maintain the pods of 15 if a teacher or TA is off sick (non Covid related). Plus the approval of governors for some children to get full time teaching from a teacher while others have 7 weeks full time teaching from a TA.

Is so, that's great and I agree that your school should be allowed to invite all year groups back. But that is a very very VERY unique school that has that kind of provision.

My DC primary school won’t be able to, 10 classes, 300+ children and small rooms that mean only 7 can ‘safely’ be in the same classroom, we would need 4X the amount of classrooms for full time 2x for 1/2 days each or they could do 1.5 days per week in what we have. No thoughts on siblings being there at the same time, I feel for those trying to make it work, the logistics are a nightmare.

@Yurona

It sounds too good to be true! Do you really have enough space and staff? Or are you planning that not all students are coming back?

Depends on your school. Ours has the space and the teachers/TAs, so should be allowed to!

Can you expand on this? Are you a teacher in the school? How many children/classrooms/teachers are there?!

To answer the OP’s question, I think the only way this can happen is..

1. The government decides that shielding/vulnerable people are now fine and can go back to work. We have a LOT of teachers/TAs in this group and about 1/3 of the staff aren’t returning next week. We are using all remaining available staff and classrooms and can still only have KW children and one year group back.

1. Social distancing is no longer necessary in schools and they can go back to 30 children to one teacher.

When both of these things happen, the rest of the school can come back. I expect that’s what the government will do and I expect it will be total carnage.

@Ohyesohyeah yes, 2 adults (Teacher and TA) per group (and some specialist teachers not even allocated to groups so can take over in case of sickness etc). Specialist teachers (French, music, PE etc) will give remote lessons at least twice daily, so only one adult required in class for supervision, the other can take a break. Since there are 2 adults per group, Loo breaks etc are also covered.
Extra class teachers are specialist teachers who are also qualified primary teachers, so potentially a bit rusty but they’ll be fine (but no doubt having q stressful halfterm).
Really weird site which is a proper pain in normal times, but classrooms are basically pavilions With 2-4 classrooms, each with own loos. Lots were used for music lessons, storage etc, but are back as classrooms now.

How many pupils in total do you have @Yurona? I'm intrigued how your budget covers all those extra teachers and TAs

I'd have thought you could keep the bubble concept in primary schools, but just double the size of the bubbles to ordinary class size. So no setting for maths, etc, and drop specialist teachers for languages. I'm guessing that's what they'll do from September anyway. I think they'll probably have to put shielding teachers on long term sick leave (replacing with long term supply), unless they can use them to provide remote learning for pupils who don't return for whatever reason.

But I can't see how you can do secondary or sixth forms with any form of bubbles, and the childcare aspect is less important at that stage, so thinking that might be part time school and part time home learning.

Thanks for your views everyone - interesting stuff. I personally believe that everyone will have to go back to some sense of normality in terms of class sizes September, but with more rigorous safety measures including hygiene. I doubt that more year groups will be able to go back before the holidays for most schools, though.

@Yurona Wait - so you've got two adults per group of 15 now (from your mention or lunch and toilet breaks) to cover the whole school coming back. Plus extra specialists and any shielding. So you have a ratio of roughly 5:30 adults to children usually if you are describing a normal state school situation. You haven't answered whether this is an average state school though so I'm thinking not - in which case, pretty important to mention in your original 'we're alright' post.

@Yurona that seems very unusual.

DDs school has 597 pupils reception - yr 6 plus 30 in nursery. Split across 25 classroom.

As of tomorrow they are expecting 167 which is a mix of R, yr 1, yr 6 and keyworkers children from the other years.

Due to classroom size and distancing those children will be taking up 23 classrooms, leaving 2 spare.

And that's only about 60% of the children eligible to return, the other 40% are staying home.

There's no way that yr2,3,4 & 5 can go back with the current guidelines

Our school could possibly do it, but it's private and has a lot of space. On top of the 40 key worker children that have been attending since lockdown R, Y1 and 6 back in tomorrow with the hope the other years can as soon of government allows. Y10 and 12 will come back part time after the 15th, housed in separate buildings.
R and Y 1 are in a separate complex with their own entrance. The others have staggered entry times spread over an hour, and Y10, and 12 will attend on separate days.

@Yurona
Private school?
If so you’re really comparing apples to
Oranges here...if not, those kids are so lucky!