To ask why some managers get away with treating employees badly?

[CanWeGoOutsideYet]

DH has been in a new job for six months and is having problems with the manager of his department already, he's rude sarcastic, argumentative, standoffish and unapproachable. It's making DH's job miserable and he's not the only one.

None of the staff like him. There have been multiple complaints made against him for bullying and he's still there.

Is it just accepted that some managers are like this? Do staff just have to put up and shut up?

It depends on company culture really whether something could get done about it and sometimes industry culture. What industry is he in?

Probably because he's more valuable and harder to replace than the people hes complaining about.

OR in a situation I'm familiar with, because the CEO sent his wife a dickpic and so he now has the power to completely ruin his life and therefore gets whatever he wants.

He's in retail, it's a big well known company with several managers above this man in question. He just manages the night shift.

OR in a situation I'm familiar with, because the CEO sent his wife a dickpic and so he now has the power to completely ruin his life and therefore gets whatever he wants Christ

Because, typically, it's harder to replace a manager than it is to replace a sales associate or similar (I just saw you're talking about retail).

In my experience, management get away with a lot. Obviously there are some great managers out there but as management roles typically have a lot of responsibility, it's a big decision to fire a manager and replace them - especially if you don't already have a replacement lined up.

I'm not saying that's a good reason but it's definitely something I've noticed. A sales position generally requires no experience so, in theory, "anyone" can do it, but being a manager requires more training and work.

My work place had 2 managers who where intimidating bullies. Went on for years.
Office culture no one really said anything except behind their back, some suck arses to safeguard themselves, few would air views regardless but often bore the brunt of it.
It took an outsider (agency ) and a new worker to officially complain.
This and moving into an open office with other teams where possibly other teams heard how they conducted themselves as snr managers has led to both of them being on suspension now.

Yes that makes alot of sense, and so it's crap when one of them turns out to be unbearable to work with.

He's a nightmare from what I've been told. One of DH's colleagues had abdominal surgery and was supposed to be on light duties when he returned, the manager rubbished that and told him to continue as usual.

Staff have to ask his permission to go to the toilet and are then told to "be quick"

Another colleague raised a formal complaint for bullying, nothing came of it and the manager actually ramped up the bullying.

He stomps down the isles glaring at people.

Just awful.

This and moving into an open office with other teams where possibly other teams heard how they conducted themselves as snr managers has led to both of them being on suspension now

That's great, and rightly so. I've never had this problem myself and I'm glad for that. I wouldn't be able to work in that environment, it sounds like hell.

Forgot to say one has recently been suspended as although under investigation I believe they had no one to replace her and her actions were not deemed as serious as the other manager so she remained in situ from Dec until suspension last few weeks.

Retail management is a very strange place to be (been there, done that, never again in my life).

You have a LOT of responsibility on your shoulders for very, very little pay. It's not an enjoyable job. You're responsible for the entire store and if someone underperforms or messes up, you get it in the neck. If the area manager comes and a display is wrong, you get it in the neck, even if you weren't in that day in order to check it. Someone fails a mystery shop? Again, it's your fault.

When I was a supervisor I was paid 6p (yes that's right, 6 entire pence) an hour more than a sales associate. That's barely 50p a day. Yet I was often left in charge of the store for two or three weeks if the manager was on holiday. Even as Deputy Manager I earned maybe £80 a month more than a sales associate. The pay was appalling for the levels of stress and responsibility you have on your shoulders.

It does sound like a lot of pressure for the small amount of pay, I do agree with that.

This manager oversees the night shift only if that makes any difference.

DH spoke with the deputy manager of the store this morning (so the one above the night manager) who said he will have a word but he's now wishing he hadn't said anything as it's nothing that hasn't been said before and made no difference for anybody else.

In my experience those such as the OP describes are often lovely to their bosses, or their bosses are unwilling to make some tough decisions. That is always assuming someone complains, which may not be the case out of fear of repercussions if their complaint does not lead to real action, the time and stress such complaints bring, or because they just look for another job.

That's even without the factors such as low pay or unreasonable demands.

That's different to not being a store manager, I agree, but there's probably a fair bit of responsibility on his shoulders.

Don't get me wrong I'm not remotely excusing his behaviour because it sounds awful, but I know plenty of retail managers (myself included) who have ended up signed off with stress-related issues because they just couldn't handle the pressure and snapped.

Bullying is hard to prove unless it’s properly documented. Just complaining someone’s rude, argumentative, unapproachable etc isn’t really enough and easily dismissed as a subordinate with an issue.
Managers are more likely to have longer service, so employer open to unfair dismissal claims, if they where dismissed for just being rude ?
They will have closer working relationships to the higher ups, so will have put their side across well ahead of complaints about them. Which leads into next point. They’re usually in management positions because they’re ‘socially intelligent’ (good at brown nosing).
Some employers are just lazy and don’t want to deal with shit managers and staff.

My old manager was a bully.

I ended up getting signed off for 8 weeks because I couldn't cope and in the end I left.

Since leaving, previous colleagues have told me he's gotten worse (I suspect he's depressed because there was a definite shift in him; we used to get on really well). Their director has been approached numerous times about him. He refuses to do anything about it, so he's getting away with it. I don't understand it, either!

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow

If only that were true!

My old manager was a bully, a micromanager and needlessly cautious when it came to business decisions.

He was promoted to "motivate" him, but all it did was put an unconfident man in a position of power over others, who only knew how to exert himself by bullying, and didn't trust his staff to carry out even basic tasks without scrutiny. He was allowed to behave appallingly to his superiors too (don't even get me started on the weird relationship he had with his boss).

Various events occurred, and I ended up as HIS manager. I found him hypocritical in the fact that he'd be tardy on tasks whilst criticising others. He led his own managees weakly and failed to carry out instructions competently. Even though I'd previously been in favour with him, he treated me with the same appalling manner as others. I was the first person to challenge him on it.

He ended up leaving when we made clear that his behaviour would no longer be tolerated by the new management.

He had to take a pay cut to do it, having failed to get a job on a similar scale, because even a surface examination of his skills showed that he had been promoted far above the level of his competence.

(incidentally it took a remarkable event for me to be promoted when I had performed at a much higher and more bankable level for years - it still makes me angry to see how much he was valued for the sake of pure favouritism and how much he failed to be challenged and rise to the opportunity his position gave him)

Some people just don't care if the poor manager is delivering results. Night shift also hard as it's not so visible to other managers.