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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do protesters loot and burn

345 replies

Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 06:41

Disclaimer: not a comment on the awful event leading up to it but on rots/ protest in general. Watching the situation in Minneapolis it struck me that in almost all protest situations there are people —young men— who burn things that are useful to them and there community, loot shops that are useful for them and their community and damage/smash the same. I can understand anger s as d shouting but why actually damage the area you live in?

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Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 09:52

ABlackRussian yes
Why do some people join protests and end up destroying other people's property but other people of the area they are in’s property not the target of their anger

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FeelingTheBurn · 30/05/2020 09:53

@ABlackRussian

If the protestors (in the US) targeted the police, or the Whitehouse, they would be shot. And it would be seen as 'justifiable'. Does that answer your question.

Why do some people join the police and end up murdering black people?

There are always going to be bad apples in every section of society. So, I'm really struggling to see what angle you are coming at?

Why do some people join protests and end up destroying other people's property?

Well, armed (white) protesters did protest against lockdown. They screamed in cops faces while waving guns, IIRC. They weren't shot, even though they were brandishing weapons.

Unarmed black people are being shot or strangled or arrested just for living.

That's why people are protesting. That's why they are angry. And peaceful protest gets them nowhere.

Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 09:54

How does burning down your local shop make the situation better? Why not burn down a non local relevant government office? A shop in the community you are angry with? Off to watch the video now

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User8008135 · 30/05/2020 09:55

It won't be government buildings because as soon as a peaceful demonstration congregated they are on heightened alert. At least in the UK they are, often they are tipped off in advance too. Big police presence even if you don't see it obvious.

Those who would enjoy creating violence and destruction, and target protests to do so, are far far less likely to go to protests where they actually may get arrested very quickly. So there's less there to incite normal protestors. And if violence does come it's quickly quashed.

Pp linked to a white male robbing preprotest, that's the kind of criminal who targets. Likely is he doesn't care about the protest or the victim/s, just getting what he wants. So he used the protest to loot and steal.

Clavinova · 30/05/2020 09:56

Peaceful protests may do fuck all, but burning down your own neighborhood including small business of BAME people as well is not the best way forward, is it.

No doubt activists from elsewhere (including activists who are white - with their own anti-establishment/anti-government agenda) have been drafted in as well - they won't care about the small businesses of BAME people - they want to encourage as much destruction as possible.

This ITV report refers to activists in Ohio, and the man in the black tracksuit with the blond tuft of hair and face covering (near the beginning of the clip) is clearly white;

www.itv.com/news/2020-05-29/racial-tensions-boil-over-in-minneapolis-as-protests-and-looting-escalate/

SoVeryLost · 30/05/2020 09:56

@Aretheystillasleepbob

' I wish people would stop pretending that the US is worse for racism than over in the UK.'

I have lived between the USA and UK and am in the US several times a year. The racism IS hands down far worse there than here. Of course the UK has racism issues ( just look at Brexit) but they pale in comparison.

People, ordinary seeming decent, intelligent people I know in the US are casually racist, in a 'well of course the police have to be tough, black communities are very violent', or ' Why don't they just get jobs/go to school/go to college. work hard like us and change their lives' way.' And of course the classic - 'why do they riot and destroy their own communities?'
The police are mostly white and white families believe that their brothers, sons, fathers, sister were a uniform to protect and serve and are proud of them. It's hard for them to swallow that they might be part of the problem. They haven't had their "are we the baddies?' moment. Yet.
I'm glad our police here aren't routinely armed, there would be a lot more deaths of people of colour here if they were.

People say the same shit here. Look at it being said about the 2011 riots. Can I suggest that you ask BAME people around you how racist it is in the UK Brexit aside? We need to stop pretending any racism is ok, which is exactly what we do when we say over there is worse. Racism is not ok, let's deal with our racism here. I too am glad our police don't routinely carry guns, it teaches them to diffuse situations instead of escalating.
CaptainMarvelDanvers · 30/05/2020 09:56

@Bigworldoutthere

For the benefit of anyone joining, I’m not white. I know what it’s like to experience racism (try being Chinese atmHmm) and my question is about in general hence Drumcree. From what I understand the Suffragists didn’t smash up their own areas they targeted government offices which makes more sense to me.
No the Suffragists did target businesses, include smashing store windows and arson.

Churches and houses were also set on fire. Also they had a time when they went around damaging and setting fire to sports clubhouses and grounds.

TwilightPeace · 30/05/2020 09:59

How does burning down your local shop make the situation better? Why not burn down a non local relevant government office?

I’ll ask again, how to you know it is the people that live in these communities that are doing the looting?
It’s almost as if you are making a massive assumption......

SimonJT · 30/05/2020 10:00

@SoVeryLost The US is more racist than the UK, the company I work for regularly sends staff to their US bases for 3-6 month stints. Staff who aren’t white no longer go due to the amount of racism non-white staff members have suffered.

Racism is endemic in the UK, as it is in the US, but it is at a much higher level in the US.

FeelingTheBurn · 30/05/2020 10:02

[quote SimonJT]@SoVeryLost The US is more racist than the UK, the company I work for regularly sends staff to their US bases for 3-6 month stints. Staff who aren’t white no longer go due to the amount of racism non-white staff members have suffered.

Racism is endemic in the UK, as it is in the US, but it is at a much higher level in the US.[/quote]
Racism in the USA might be more overt, but I would hesitate to say that anywhere is less racist than anywhere else.
UK's racism is more subtle, it all it is.

SimonJT · 30/05/2020 10:03

@FeelingTheBurn As a brown man who has spent a considerable amount of time in the US I completely disagree.

Quote function has stopped working for me

Clavinova · 30/05/2020 10:04

look at the fact BAME people were twice as likely to be fined than white people during the lockdown over here.

Although BAME people tend to live in cities in the UK - where there are more police - who have not much else to do at the moment other than fine people during lockdown.

SoVeryLost · 30/05/2020 10:04

@Bigworldoutthere

For the benefit of anyone joining, I’m not white. I know what it’s like to experience racism (try being Chinese atmHmm) and my question is about in general hence Drumcree. From what I understand the Suffragists didn’t smash up their own areas they targeted government offices which makes more sense to me.
Can I respectfully suggest that the racism these people have had have been happening for years, the chances of them getting anywhere in the world are extremely limited. They are more likely to be stopped by the police for simply going to work, or for being in their own home. While it is not nice, the current situation will pass and you won't have long term negative affects to yours and your children's lives.
Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 10:05

@TwilightPeace missed it the first time you asked. I’m basing it on the sample of people interviewed/heard talking on a few riots I’ve looked at in different countries. So really, it’s an assumption, you’re right. I wonder if there’s a way of finding out with historical riots where people who have done the most damage to the community come from. Would be interesting to see. As pp have mentioned though it seems that people are bought in from elsewhere. That would make sense if they only care about the cause of the riot/are paid agitators.

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FTMF30 · 30/05/2020 10:06

Well it's actually undercover police who often start the riots and then use it as an excuse for further police brutality.
amp.reddit.com/r/AntifascistsofReddit/comments/gsnabh/update_it_has_been_revealed_that_officer_jacob/

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 30/05/2020 10:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoVeryLost · 30/05/2020 10:07

[quote SimonJT]@SoVeryLost The US is more racist than the UK, the company I work for regularly sends staff to their US bases for 3-6 month stints. Staff who aren’t white no longer go due to the amount of racism non-white staff members have suffered.

Racism is endemic in the UK, as it is in the US, but it is at a much higher level in the US.[/quote]
I'll have to disagree with you. I also don't think it is helpful to dealing with the racism in the UK to compare.

ABlackRussian · 30/05/2020 10:08

FeelingTheBurn, I'm not sure why you are directing those answers at me? I was giving the OP answers to his/her question, that she says no one is answering! Grin

FTMF30 · 30/05/2020 10:08

It happens alot but is never covered in mainstream media for obvious reasons.

Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 10:08

SoVeryLost yes, I agree. I’m looking at riots in general and not all have a racial element. Didn’t realise the extent of the Suffragist building damage so the same point is valid there

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Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 10:10

@Fee**@FeelingTheBurn@Ablackrussian no, nor me. I realised after I posted and no edit function[grin

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Pixieblu · 30/05/2020 10:12

*I do find it interesting that people are more willing to speak about the 'looting' and express upset/ anger about that, then black men being murdered by the police.

Why is that?*

If only people will question and condemn unarmed black people being murdered in the street with the same ferocity they do Target being looted.

(Maybe Target is a white owned business that donates big money to the police who in turn are killing innocent black people)

Kaepernick kneeled and was vilified and lost his job despite being one of the most promising young players. Others kneeled and lost their jobs and were pulled off school teams.

White people protested against wearing masks while heavily armed and police did not blink.

Black people peacefully protest and the police antagonize and attack them first usually. There is a video of unarmed people people chanting and a white police officer grabs one black male and headbutts him for no reason probably because he is "a threat". But why isn't the white man armed with military style and screaming in an officer's face not a threat.

Dylan Roof murdered 9 black people in cold blood and was arrested peacefully and the police even bought him a Burger King meal because he was hungry. George Floyd lost his life because the store clerk "thought" he used a fake bill. He is not protesting or being violent but somehow he lost his life and all you are concerned about is looting?

The suffragettes also used violence and damage to get their point across but we laud that movement, but when black people do it we have to put them in their place and tell them to behave appropriately and no wonder the police resort to the measures they do.

Too many black lives have been lost. And some damage and all people want to talk about is things, material possessions not human life.

Until you condemn those killing us with the same energy and concern, I will not dignify your question with a response.

ABlackRussian · 30/05/2020 10:13

Bigworldoutthere, there's something a bit 'off' with the fact that you are purposely ignoring poster's answers to your question. And all you can come back with is "well, why are they destroying their own communuties?". You are then given answers to that, and you still keep saying no one has answered and then you ask the same question again Grin

Very strange. I hope you get the answers you desperately want you are looking for Cake

Clavinova · 30/05/2020 10:14

FTMF30
Well it's actually undercover police who often start the riots and then use it as an excuse for further police brutality.

"A viral and incendiary social media accusation against a St. Paul, Minnesota, police officer is false, the police department said in a statement.The situation shows how quickly information can spread on social media, ricocheting around the web, especially in a fast-moving situation like the unrest in the Twin Cities."

www.newsbreak.com/minnesota/minneapolis/news/0PBV5x9l/jacob-pederson-is-not-the-autozone-umbrella-man-st-paul-police-say

NameChangedToProtect1 · 30/05/2020 10:14

I understand protesting but burning property is totally unacceptable. It undermines the point of the protest.