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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do protesters loot and burn

345 replies

Bigworldoutthere · 30/05/2020 06:41

Disclaimer: not a comment on the awful event leading up to it but on rots/ protest in general. Watching the situation in Minneapolis it struck me that in almost all protest situations there are people —young men— who burn things that are useful to them and there community, loot shops that are useful for them and their community and damage/smash the same. I can understand anger s as d shouting but why actually damage the area you live in?

OP posts:
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HelloToMyKitty · 30/05/2020 19:38

America (particularly the Republican party) does it's best to stop black people from voting. Be it taking their names of voters registers, barring postal voting in areas where it's the preferred means used by black voters, or barring felons from voting when institutionally racist law enforcement means black people are criminalised at far higher rates than white people

You know, a state like Minnesota is totally controlled by Democrats, I don’t believe they had a Republican governor in close to 20 years.

Minneapolis itself hasn’t had a Republican mayor since the 70s. The black vote is not suppressed in Minneapolis by any stretch of the imagination. They’ve had four decades of continuous power!

Federal policy doesn’t matter when it comes to the local police department, you may as well ask why the Dems didn’t fix it, why Amy Klobuchar didn’t fire this guy when she had the chance (it’s going to blow her Veep chances).

Why didn’t they bust up the police union, which is a huge part of the problem when it comes to getting rid of dirty cops. When they fuck up and kill someone, they usually get put on paid leave until the union gets them off.

But the Dems will never fucking touch public sector unions. Too much of a sacred cow.

Siameasy · 30/05/2020 19:42

They’re doing this because what else can they do? Nothing else has worked. Being nice hasn’t worked.

LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 30/05/2020 19:46

Its like the London riots..some people rioted because of the anger of the situation..others to take what they could get. Which is what this seems partly a case of. His death shouldn't become overshadowed by this and shouldn't lose meaning.

The focus still should remain on what lead to these riots! The mans actions shouldn't be forgotten and a part of me does think that had people not rioted and showed anger this way...would he have been arrested? You would hope so but who knows.

But unfortunately it seems pointless people protesting and shouting about how Black lives matter cause cases like this keeps happening time and time and time again.

StopMurderingUs · 30/05/2020 19:54

That's it for me, I can't keep coming to this thread to read people focus on material things instead of the lives that are being lost.

Those saying riots make it difficult to appreciate the issue are part of the problem...if all it takes is the loss of material things for you to say the actual issue is lost, you are looking for any excuse not to listen anyway and any minute detail would give you a reason to go back to your privileged bubble and blame the people being maimed and murdered systematically for their plight- so I cant put much stock in your opinion anyway.

Why do protesters loot and burn
Why do protesters loot and burn
Clavinova · 30/05/2020 20:16

That's it for me, I can't keep coming to this thread to read people focus on material things instead of the lives that are being lost.

You have quoted the slogan, "The time for aggressive + violent demonstration is now" but this appears to have resulted in the death of another innocent victim - how do you justify that?

"Deadly shooting outside Oakland courthouse as protests rage."
"One federal contract security officer was killed and another was injured in the shooting on Friday night."

"The identities of the officers were not released and there was no word on the condition of the wounded officer."

"The officers protect federal court houses as part of their regular duties."

"The shooting happened less than a half-mile from the Oakland police headquarters where demonstrators gathered to protest against the police killing of George Floyd in Minnesota."

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/oakland-courthouse-shooting-george-floyd-protest

OldQueen1969 · 30/05/2020 21:06

A PP used the phrase "needless self inflicted harm".

It made me think.

When you feel pain, and you express that pain, but no-one listens, no-one addresses the cause of that pain, no matter how reasonably you state your case or ask nicely for support or understanding, it will find a way out.

Society is so keen to keep things peaceful and orderly for the majority, and to protect the system, the economy etc - the real benefits of which are usually engineered for a small group who claim falsely that anyone can access them if they just follow a prescribed formula - that when some of the majority realise they are being sold a pup and complain and are brushed aside as just "not living / thinking right" eventually unrest will erupt and self harm is the result alongside some small feeling of having expressed oneself.

You see it all the time in threads about abusive relationships - "You picked the wrong man / woman". In work related situations it is up to the office scapegoat to figure out a way to beat the person victimising them and retain the high ground. Complex emotional situations are turned on the person asking for advice - retain the moral high ground, think about things from the other persons point of view, with little analysis of why such behaviour from abusive people is tolerated and should be worked round rather than confronted.

Another PP mentioned the similarity to being in an abusive relationship where people are poked to the point of no return, respond in kind and are then blamed for not doing things differently.

If you over eat, drink to excess, gamble, are a drug addict or actually self-harm, it appears needless - you can just change, get therapy bla bla bla. But it's an expression of trauma. On a systemic level, there exists a huge cognitive dissonance. Politicians promise that things will change, ask for help from "the community" and then renege on their promises regularly, expecting the community to understand and be patient - it's always jam tomorrow and conditional on more and more one sided compliance.

In a moment of extreme pain and anger and fear, lashing out, even when you know the consequences will be bad for oneself and the wider community is a human response to trauma.

If you have never felt the fear and pain of an injustice against which you are powerless no matter how you behave, you are very lucky

Pertella · 30/05/2020 21:14

clavinova that report says that the shooting was at a different location to the protest and theres nothing to say it was carried out by a protester.

Pertella · 30/05/2020 21:19

Although you could argue it was linked to the protests, therefore the protests as a whole are 'to blame'.

Can we therefore apply the same logic to the police? Or can we accept that individuals do shitty things for their own reasons?

HelloToMyKitty · 30/05/2020 21:26

If anyone’s interested, a lot of posters are claiming on the Minnesota subreddit that these are outsiders, even out-of-staters doing some of the worst damage.

I tend to believe it, I don’t think locals would do this to their own communities. But there’s not much proof atm just rumors

HeckyPeck · 30/05/2020 21:29

That's it for me, I can't keep coming to this thread to read people focus on material things instead of the lives that are being lost.

Mumsnet has far too many “I don’t see colour” posters. Any post about race will have people falling over themselves to explain to the poster why whatever the incident was wouldn’t have been about their race. I expected this kind of post and the responses it’s had.

Some people just don’t want to believe their own privilege because then they’d have to do something about it.

Swiftsseason · 30/05/2020 21:43

I feel like rioting for this man and I get the anger... Look at the French riots!! Every weekend for months and months.

The problem is the proffesonal riotors who just riot over anything..
The ones who want to destroy all borders and bring down any government.

Swiftsseason · 30/05/2020 21:47

Old Queen

^^ Great Post

Swiftsseason · 30/05/2020 21:52

Hello, just took a look, they called the riot tourists.

Clavinova · 30/05/2020 21:53

that report says that the shooting was at a different location to the protest and there's nothing to say it was carried out by a protester.

Less than half a mile away - the Guardian have obviously implied a link - "oakland-courthouse-shooting-george-floyd-protest"

NBC News;
"Last night in Oakland, California, an assassin cowardly shot two Federal Protective Service contractors as they stood to watch over a protest," Wolf [DHS Acting Secretary] said, while expressing his "deepest condolences" to the families of the contractors."

"Wolf said that while the investigation is still in the early stages, his agency is interested in "any and all groups" that use the George Floyd protests "that could be peaceful" to engage in violence."

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-protective-service-officer-killed-another-injured-oakland-shooting-amid-n1219561

"It is not yet clear if the shooting was related to the protests."

"The federal building’s glass doors were smashed and the front entrance was sprayed with anti-police graffiti."

www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/east-bay/one-of-two-federal-officers-shot-friday-night-dies-from-injuries/2299729/

lululocks · 30/05/2020 22:00

Those saying riots make it difficult to appreciate the issue are part of the problem...

I understand the riots given the horrific situation but it’s naive to think that riots that involve burning down buildings, business, and looting don't make it difficult to appreciate the issue. You can’t fight fire with fire (or crime with crime in this case).

Mimishimi · 30/05/2020 22:03

My cousin posted a pic which said something like 'why can't you protest peacefully?' then showed pics of football players kneeling and the caption 'no, not like that', protestors with black lives matter signs and the caption 'no, not like that' and other photos of the same ilk with the same caption.

There has been peaceful protest, it's just noone is listening.

Indoctro · 30/05/2020 22:07

I've no idea why they do that but it serves them right. That country needs to start listening to the people , it's not acceptable to kill innocent men and women .

America is a absolute cesspit at the moment full of racism and hatred

I feel sorry for anyone who lives there. I won't ever go there again, the place disgusts me.

YesIDoLoveCrisps · 30/05/2020 22:10

There’s a documentary on Netflix called LA 92 that kind of shows how rioting happens.
It’s unpleasant viewing but should be watched.

thisenglishlife · 30/05/2020 22:14

A lot of the protesters are from out of state, as the Governor himself has found.

Police used water cannons and rubber bullets (even aiming at heads) on peaceful protests

Lots of the rioters seem very very young

Undercover police officers causing damage? www.google.com/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/george-floyd-riots-how-new-york-city-protesters-identify-undercover-cops-in-crowds/news-story/9438906a729d936edf342ac441054c50

Umbrella/hammer guy www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/minneapolis-protest-riot-umbrella-man-george-floyd-a9539741.html?amp

FlyMCA · 30/05/2020 22:16

'Deeds not words'

Didnt Kaepernick kneel during the national anthem as a protest again racism and receive mainly backlash? Hardly surprising things have escalated. Whilst I i don't doubt some see it as an opportunity for personal gain, for many its about being heard.

Why did a police officer kneel on a mans kneck long enough to kill him? Why is this still happening is the question we should be asking.

EnoughAlready2020 · 30/05/2020 22:26

@thesamethingkeepshappening I'm so sorry 😔

thisenglishlife · 30/05/2020 22:26

Trumo:

*Neo-Nazis hitting people with cars and inciting violence are “fine people”.

*Armed, mostly white demonstrators who yelled at police because they’re angry they can’t get haircuts are “good people”.

*Unarmed protesters reacting to injustice are “THUGS” and deserve military action.

Three weeks ago, a group of white men strolled around downtown Raleigh with a grenade launcher, pistols and rifles to “protest” the shutdown orders during a pandemic. One even stopped a black family to give them a Sieg Heil.

thisenglishlife · 30/05/2020 22:27

Trump

Clavinova · 30/05/2020 22:38

Undercover police officers causing damage?

Or filming protesters? From your link -

"When people examined the photos more closely, they were also able to spot body cameras attached to the men."

Umbrella/hammer guy

"The man was seen breaking four windows before a protester, wearing a pink T-shirt, intervened, stepping between the man and the storefront."

"But in another video, filmed the same day, the two men appear to be walking and talking together."

www.businessinsider.com.au/minneapolis-protesters-social-media-users-suspicious-of-umbrella-man-2020-5

FOJN · 30/05/2020 22:50

OldQueen1969
Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

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