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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Mass redundancy AIBU to start a union?

26 replies

littlefishybigfishy · 28/05/2020 16:51

Devastated! We have all just been told that there are going to be mass redundancies at the end of July. We are an SME and I am shocked, I don't know why I am shocked, I should have seen it coming and I knew business has dried up completely.

We haven't specifically been told which ones of us (maybe everyone?) Due to the nature of the company we have zero income and none of us can do our jobs now or for the foreseeable future . We just know that all roles are up for review to ensure the companies survival.

We have been asked to nominate reps to represent the team in discussions with the boss.

I am feeling desperate. Is there anything we can do to better our position? Shall we start a union? Join a union? Any recommendations?

OP posts:
AKissAndASmile · 28/05/2020 16:53

What's a SME?
Sorry to hear your news.

Original poster
littlefishybigfishy · 28/05/2020 16:53

Small medium enterprise , I believe, just to give an indication of size and how many there are of us

OP posts:
PuckleP · 28/05/2020 16:57

It may be too late to join a union, most have a 4week rule. As a TU officer I would suggest you contact ACAS as soon as possible they will be able to advise if your rights regarding consultation times

anniegun · 28/05/2020 17:02

Elect responsible representatives and ask your company to fund legal advice for those representatives. Unfortunately the way you have described it this may be just a formality as a company with no revenues is not likely to be generous or flexible. However consultation times are mandatory (30 days if 20-99 employees will be made redundant).

highmarkingsnowbile · 28/05/2020 17:06

What are your aims, to force an employer not to make you redundant (so instead someone else loses their job)?

Original poster
littlefishybigfishy · 28/05/2020 17:14

Thank you very much @PuckleP and @anniegun :)

OP posts:
Westfacing · 28/05/2020 17:16

I'm sorry you're in this position - I was once made redundant.

But why do people only think about joining a union when they're in trouble and need help?

Mucklowe · 28/05/2020 17:19

But why do people only think about joining a union when they're in trouble and need help?

Years of anti-union legislation and propaganda from the right wing press?

It's never too late, OP. Join now.

Ghostlyglow · 28/05/2020 17:20

Why weren't you in a union?

MrsFogi · 28/05/2020 17:24

My advice would be to spend your time and energy getting moving on looking for a new role/working out what you do next rather than spending it on what is going to happen anyway. As long as the company follows the redundancy consultation process and doesn't discriminate when choosing people/setting the critera for redundancy (if not all of you are let go) there is not going to be much you can do so don't waste your time fighting it.

LakieLady · 28/05/2020 17:36

And it's 45 days consultation if there are to be more than 100. You'll be able to gauge the likely numbers by when they start the process.

In consultation, I'd be asking the employers to set out clearly the criteria that will be applied in deciding which staff will be retained. Whatever ctriteria they use must be fair and disadvantage any group with a protected characteristic. This could mean, for example, that they don't get rid of p/t workers first as, in most organisations, p/t workers are predominantly female.

This is a shit thing to happen, especially now when things are so uncertain.

lanthanum · 28/05/2020 17:37

The invitation to nominate reps for the discussion is because you don't have a union. Pick people who are going to do a good job, and who don't mind reading up on the regulations. If you have anyone with any sort of union/negotiating experience from previous work, that might be useful.

My husband was one of the reps when his small company decided to close the UK office - he also had the advantage that he happened to have a job offer on the table from another company at the time (which he owned up to as soon as the announcement was made), so he had no personal worries and could concentrate on doing the best for his colleagues. I think the reps were able to influence things like redundancy payouts to protect those who would have most difficulty coping until they found a new job. Obviously in their case there wasn't the thorny issue of redundancy criteria as it was all of them (apart from the odd one willing to relocate).

TARSCOUT · 28/05/2020 17:55

I'm sorry OP. If you aren't in a union now there is no point in joining as they are unable to assist with issues already in place.

Link below is to the acas site. For an SME it's likely that you'll only get whatever statutory payment you are entitled to. How many are to be made redundant?

Check your insurance policies in case any of them have legal cover and if you can use this for an employment lawyer.

www.acas.org.uk/redundancy

lifestooshort123 · 28/05/2020 18:01

The covoid effect - I'm really sorry for you but some businesses will struggle to stay afloat.

SluggishSnail · 28/05/2020 18:45

I think MrsFogi sums it up. A union will simply make sure things are fair and legal. They can't/won't force an employer not to make redundancies.

I feel your pain. 2/3 of my team was made redundant today (12 people)

Original poster
littlefishybigfishy · 28/05/2020 19:05

I understand the need to make redundancies but @MrsFogi its not even clear how many of us will be going/staying. All our jobs are at risk.

I'm not sure how much influence we have over the redundancy terms. Do we have any influence?

OP posts:
HforHotel · 28/05/2020 19:27

I’ve recently put 80 people at risk of redundancy as part of restructuring. The consultation obligations are pretty robust in terms of the process, but it is just a process of sharing information back and fore. It adds to the timeline before an organisation can execute on their planned changes.

I don’t know what you’d hope to achieve by engaging a union. Employee Reps should be able to represent the interests of the group.

You should be given details of the rationale for the redundancy and the proposed selection methodology. Redundancy pay in the current circumstances would more likely to statutory. I doubt you can influence how much they will pay, particularly given the current macro economic pressures. In my case, it will be a clear statement of here’s how much we’re prepared to pay as severance. It’s above the statutory minimum and employees will need to sign settlement agreements to receive the additional money. If they don’t sign, that’s fine and they’ll received statutory redundancy only, as there’s no legal recourse, as I’ve followed the due process.

Hope the discussion goes well OP. ACAS can advise you on process.

Alex50 · 28/05/2020 19:58

Come August there will be a huge number of redundancies, I would put your energy in looking for another job.

CoRhona · 28/05/2020 19:58

Op, are any of your colleagues in a union? They may be able to get advice and feed back?

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 28/05/2020 20:08

I'm very sorry you are in this situation. One of the things to remember with redundancy is that it isn't people who get made redundant, it's posts. So for example, if a shop closed a department or store due to lack of customers, that department / store would have no jobs, but employees whose jobs are no longer available would usually be prioritised for jobs in other stores or departments.

Do you have any idea of how likely your company is to continue trading at all, and whether your particular job would be needed in a smaller organisation? If the answer is no, you may wish to consider whether you put your energy into fighting for your rights in your current company, or invest your time in looking for something else.

Once again, i'm sorry, it's a horrible position to be in, I hope you are able to find something that you enjoy. Good luck.

Original poster
littlefishybigfishy · 28/05/2020 20:16

Does anyone know if redundancy pay can be paid to an employee who has been there less than a year? @HforHotel ?

OP posts:
StaffAssociationRepresentative · 28/05/2020 20:24

Oh no! Two years is when redundancy payments kick in. You will get your notice period and any holidays that you have acquired even during furlough

Sorry about that.

CocoR · 28/05/2020 20:28

No, it's only from 2 years.

Kerberos · 28/05/2020 20:44

@MrsFogi

My advice would be to spend your time and energy getting moving on looking for a new role/working out what you do next rather than spending it on what is going to happen anyway. As long as the company follows the redundancy consultation process and doesn't discriminate when choosing people/setting the critera for redundancy (if not all of you are let go) there is not going to be much you can do so don't waste your time fighting it.
I'd agree with this with the caveat i know nothing about your personal situation or skills. I'd brush up your CV now and get it out there. Time and energy fighting is best spent getting yourself into a better situation.
SpiderJerusalem · 28/05/2020 21:01

Agree with PP about updating your CV/ LinkedIn etc. Is your company offering any Ongoing support such as outplacement? My DH had really great help from Renovo when he was made redundant a few years ago