To ask about false claims

[youchoosetheplace]

Because I am desperate, and also maybe slightly masochistic, I am reposting here from legal for traffic.

I know how this sounds, and the general consensus on accusations of DV is there's no smoke without fire, but please bear with, we are in a nightmarish situation.

I have been with DP for 6 years. We have DSS8 and DD14 months.

Its a very long story, so I wont drone on too much - essentially my step son lives with me and my partner (this has been his residency for nearly a year now) due to DPs exw having severe mental health problems. There were concerns about neglect and the affect of her episodes of psychosis on DSS8s wellbeing. She would not seek treatment and kept being discharged form MH services due to non attendance. (Not a judgement - she's a good mum and she has a good relationship with my stepson, and her actions are not malicious, she is just v unwell).

We have been to court and have a court order making DP resident parent. 8 weeks ago she had a breakdown outside of our house which resulted in us suspending contact.

It was very scary and I had to call 999.

We made it very clear that what we required a letter from her MHP to say that this was just a blip and she is of general good mental health. She has refused, says this is crass and disgraceful and maintains she has done nothing wrong. Her claim is that DP cannot demand her private records at any 'whim and fancy'.

She has since started court proceedings for an enforcement order, we had the directions hearing yesterday. In the hearing she accused my DP of domestic violence (coercive control), says her Mental health professional has written a letter stating that in his opinion her severe anxiety is consistent with abuse and she will be taking this matter to criminal court. Our barrister believes that she has obtained this letter in order to qualify for legal aid, as she can not afford council and has so far been litigant in person.

I mean, I have no idea how this works. Can she really get DP convicted of DV on a letter from a health professional that has never met him? We are terrified. She is highly intelligent and extremely articulate, and when she wants something she will get it no matter what. Its just such a horrible accusation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and many thanks if you got this far.

As you already have the services of a barrister surely he would be in a better place to answer your question.

I don’t think this makes sense, though I did law school in the US for full disclosure. That letter would not be sufficient in a criminal court, and to press criminal charges involves the police taking the case, investigating, determining the threshold of evidence has been crossed with the CPS and then going to court. She cannot do that as an individual.

What it sounds more like is that she will use this letter in civil proceedings as she seeks custody of the child. Here, the burden of proof is lower. This means that, unlike in a criminal court where it has to be “beyond reasonable doubt”, civil courts rely on a “more likely than unlikely” balance. However, your barrister can request a full disclosure of her mental health records as a result of her bringing this into evidence this way. That will likely undermine her, and without more evidence this won’t stand. I’d suggest to your barrister getting a private mental health expert to review her files if it gets to that stage and they can provide an independent opinion on what her behaviour is consistent with.

Lately there have been some MNers who seem to think women regularly go around falsely accusing men of violence and sexual crimes. They will probably turn up on this thread. These accusations are rarely false, and their anecdotal evidence is useless - there are peer reviewed studies that demonstrate that such accusations are relatively rare. No matter how comforting these posters will be, please keep an open mind to her experience: either of DV or of her mental health concerns that have led to this point.

At what point did you seek legal advice - before or after you said she couldn’t see her child?

Thankyou @sergeilavrov - that is very interesting.

After looking into this I am aware that she is a rarity. Ive also become aware that a very high percentage of domestic abuse cases don't make it to court because of lack of evidence - it's abhorrent and I certainly don't tar all women who make claims against their abusers with the same brush.

Our barrister is actually a woman @FrippEnos. Its a shame you make the assumption it's a man.

@howabout after we sought the advice of social services and the police.

I'm a lawyer and worked in criminal law before qualifying and volunteered at Citizens' Advice as a student.
It is VERY common for women to lie about domestic abuse in order to get legal aid. Judges almost always see through it. CPS will not charge your partner with anything. In every case I've known, this tactic has gone in favour of the man and although the judge will never say it, they'll take into account in their decision whether the mother is making false accusations and how that kind of behaviour affects a child.
I had one case where the mother remarried and a year later told the father he could no longer see the children because they had a new father and didn't need them. He took her to court for visitation and she claimed all sorts - that he'd beaten her, cited hospital visits as evidence and he presented evidence he was abroad at the time (on tour for the military), she said he had caused late-term miscarriages but had no medical record of any... no mention of any violence in the divorce proceedings.
Needless to say, the judge absolutely demolished her and the father got more visitation than he was even petitioning for.

Social Services and the Police isn’t legal advice?

I’m not a lawyer so could well be wrong but the problem you could have here is the existence of a court order which means the child should be available for contact and if you don’t want that, the onus is on you to return to court to get the order changed or removed. On the limited info given , it just sounds like you’ve made a decision and now expect her to jump through your hoops. And unfortunately, that comes across as controlling.

So I guess the issue is...can you evidence social service and police contact and their advice? And was their advice to remove contact until you have this letter? Because in my experience, both the police and social services would have told you to go back to court to deal with the issue of the Order with the evidence that you have to change it,

Are you the poster who came on mumsnet to start a thread about this woman when she was unwell outside your house for hours rather than calling for help for her? And whose own behaviour arguably caused the distressed reaction from her in the first place.

Talk to your barrister.

If she does pursue you through the courts I doubt all the shit you've been posting about her online will look good for you.

Her claim is that DP cannot demand her private records at any 'whim and fancy'.

She's right. It screams power play on your part.

youchoosetheplace

Its a shame that is all you took from the advice.

Ah! Thought it was familiar! Then it sounds like you have dug yourself an enormous hole. If both the police and Social Services considered she was unwell enough to be blocked from seeing her child, you should have been back in court at the first opportunity (the next day). Not waiting for her to make an enforcement application. If she is genuinely unwell, you have played into her hands and indeed, are not properly protecting your DSS.

I think what particularly concerned me about your initial post today was the concern for your partner and no reference whatsoever to the well being of your step son.

How long have you been with your partner? You perhaps should seek some support to have a long hard look at your relationship. You may well be experiencing some abuse yourself. If he manages to remove his ex from the scene, you will be next.

@howabout a return to court the next day was never mentioned by our solicitor and it sounds like something that would have saved us a lot of pain. Social services simply told us to hold onto him.

I've never posted about this situation before. Regardless @user, I find it interesting that you think that a court would want to look at a post on an anonymous forum as guidance towards a decision on whether or not a child is safe with their parent?

Thankyou very much to everyone who commented there is a lot of food for thought.

I can't offer any legal advice, but you've been with this man for eight years, he's stepped up and taken full responsibility for his child (with you). His ex has a motive for lying. I'm not saying it's impossible that it didn't happen, but you know this man very well and also know how difficult and unusual it is for a man to be granted custody of a child over their mother. I've sat on a jury and witnessed first hand how nasty and bitter failed relationships can end up in false allegations and the devastating effect on the person wrongly accused.

I don't know why people are flaming you and willfully misconstruong what you've said when they don't know you, your DP or the woman involved. She is not your responsibility. I have no idea why people on this forum need to behave like arseholes to people needing support.

Thankyou @cam - I think I knew what to expect by posting on AIBU but was just really keen for some help. Our solicitor has made us feel so much better this afternoon and along with their advice, and the advice of other previous posters with legal knowledge, we understand a bit more about the legal system now. It really is an absolute minefield.

Glad you're feeling better about things, it sounds like a really stressful situation - as if lockdown isn't it enough?! Good luck

I mean, I have no idea how this works. Can she really get DP convicted of DV on a letter from a health professional that has never met him? We are terrified. She is highly intelligent and extremely articulate, and when she wants something she will get it no matter what. Its just such a horrible accusation.

Before the case could reach a criminal court, the Ew would have to report your Dh to the police. It seems that this allegation has been made at least initially to ensure she has legal representation.

While in the family courts there is a lower burden with regard to evidence, your own barrister will challenge any conclusions in the mental health professional letter.

You don't need to be terrified, your lawyer will challenge her allegations of DV and one would hope successfully have them dismissed on the basis that they untrue.

I can completely understand why you would want an assurance previously from her mHP to confirm she had recovered.

It is likely the medical notes and records will be released through the court process in any event

The best advice I can give you as a client is to not worry about the outcome of the process because it won't change anything. Trust that your lawyers will come through and know that they are paid to worry on your behalf.

Hugs

Thankyou @mamascorpio that has made me feel a lot better this morning.

We think it is much better for her to be represented, she is vulnerable and everybody deserves access to counsel, so to be honest if it only gets as far as her getting legal aid then even though it is an extremely upsetting accusation it may be for the best. She will have no 'proof' other than what she has told her MHP, as her claims are entirely false, so with the knowledge we have now about the court system and how these claims work we are relieved that this will get her nowhere other than legal representation.