To say that the TDS are a disgrace

[DilemmaDame]

I moved out of my rental house in February and after not having heard from my landlord for a week I chased him about the return of my deposit. He sent me a copy of the check out inventory and the check in inventory and said he was considering the 'recommendations' in it and getting quotes.

I bought a flat with my boyfriend in February (great fucking timing!) and told him I really needed the money back asap.

He sent me a list of things the inventory said I was responsible for (I don't agree, I think they are wear and tear) and returned 375 i.e. 75% of my deposit to me on a "conditional basis" and said he would be in touch when he had obtained more quotes. He said it was difficult getting tradesmen in for quotes because of COVID. Right ok, whatever.

He then came back a month later saying actually I owed him 800, basically 50% of my deposit!

I was completely raging and told him that I disagreed and threatened to take him to the TDS. After many painful emails back and forth he refused to budge and so I filed a claim with the TDS for the 375.

The landlord then declined to participate in the TDS process (I didn't even know they could do this!) on the basis that he felt he was entitled to more than 375 and was "not willing to participate in a final and binding TDS process where the adjudicator does not have the power to award me the full amount to which I feel I am entitled" and basically tells me to go to court!

I call the TDS and they say there is nothing they can do!

The landlord has now emailed me saying he has been issued with a demand by the TDS for the 375 and that once that is paid in, either I will have to take him to court or he will have to take me to court, because the TDS won't release the money to either of us without a court order! His email says "in the event that litigation is required please note that I will be claiming the full deductions under the deposit, which for the avoidance of doubt includes the amounts which were returned to you on a conditional basis, together with interest and costs".

I just want out now but I called the TDS yesterday and they have said that because a dispute is on foot I cannot withdraw my case :( So now I either need to sue him or be sued! Thanks a fucking lot TDS!

I'm fucked aren't i? :(

anyone have any advice? I'm shit scared.

No proper advice but I remember getting screwed over on many a deposit so sympathies instead. Might be worth asking to move this to the legal section too.

Hi,
I'm a lawyer but not in property but this is very much not ok.
Firstly, your landlord legally should not have access to your money at all. When you start your tenancy, your deposit is protected by TDS and you should be issued with a letter stating that it has been deposited. This happens within 30 days or your landlord is breaking the law. Did you receive that letter?
Therefore, the way it works is that you request your deposit from your landlord (it's ridiculous that you have to request it but you do). Then, from your request, they have either ten days or thirty days (I can't remember which) to either give you your money or tell you why they want to keep some. If the landlord tells TDS that they want to keep some they'll return the rest to you and ask whether you agree with the deductions. If you do agree then that money goes to your landlord. If you don't agree then your landlord has to provide evidence that you owe the money for damage or whatever. If you still disagree then you can have an arbitral hearing where an arbitrator (like a judge) will decide whether the money goes to you or the landlord. If the landlord refuses to do that then the money goes to you. If the landlord cannot PROVE you caused the damage then the money goes to you.
Only in a situation where you owe more than your deposit can this go to court. TDS cannot help you if the money was never deposited into their scheme - was it? If so, your landlord cannot physically keep your money because he doesn't have it to keep.

Hi Bump

Yes the deposit was registered with the TDS and I have the certificate, and it all checks out on the TDS website. All above board in that regard. I had assumed this meant the TDS held the deposit but there are two schemes they run, one where the LL holds it and one where they hold it and it turns out my LL holds it.

I also thought that if we had a dispute we had to use the TDS (I thought that was the bloody point of them but I called the TDS and it's true - they can't force the LL to use their adjudication service.

I'm just bricking it now because i thought he had stung me for 375 and now it looks like he's going to be claiming 800 plus legal costs and everything in court. He has said I am welcome to commence litigation but to let him know by the end of the month, failing which he will as the only way to get the deposit back once its with the TDS is to get a court order to release it.

Sorry that is confusing: the TDS doesn't currently hold the deposit but they are asking him to send them the 375 that i raised the dispute about, if you see what I mean.

I asked him why he was paying it into the TDS if he doesn't want to use their adjudication process but he forwarded me the demand from the TDS and it says that if he doesn't pay it in then they can commence litigation against him.

I've literally not slept in days I am so stressed.

INAL but fairly sure you can use small claims - even if you lose you won't have to pay his costs.

You are not fucked - the worst outcome would be you losing the whole deposit plus court fees and some time.

To win in small claims you will need some convincing evidence though. Without wanting to be in any way mean - you need to be realistic about what the LL will say his costs are and why he feels entitled to retain that money - can you counter his evidence with yours?

Hi,
This is definitely not right. Like I said, I'm not a property lawyer but I've had a quick search.
The two types are custodial and insured. Custodial is what I mentioned above, you have the insured kind. In that scenario, if a dispute arises then the landlord must transfer the disputed sum to TDS until the dispute it resolved.
Your landlord does not have to use their dispute resolution service but, if they don't, then the money will go to you. Your landlord would have to initiate court proceedings against you to get the money - which would obviously cost them more money. As always, they have to prove you caused the damage.

I have checked with citizens advice and i definitely would have to pay some of his costs if I lost.

I know what you're saying but 800 (plus court fees and everything)... it's a lot of money to me right now. I am just kicking myself because I should have let sleeping dogs lie but my boyfriend was egging me on to file a TDS dispute because it "couldn't do any harm" and he said the TDS always finds for the tenant :(

I thought that if the TDS didn't for me I wouldn't be any worse off than the 375 i am now. I didn't realise it would be opening this pandora's box.

Thanks Bump i really appreciate it but honestly it's true, they don't have to use the TDS adjudication I've read and re-read the TDS website (but they DO have to pay in the disputed bit of the deposit if the tenant raises a claim). I called the TDS and have spoken to a man yesterday and a lady this morning and they've both told me the same thing: when you raise a dispute the LL pays the disputed bit into TDS (if TDS are not already holding it) but he doens't have to use their dispute service, he can go to court if he wants.

He is saying the TDS won't give him the 375 back until they get a court order saying he won or I won so either i sue him or he sues me.

I really think I should have left it, he had the inventory and quotes and stuff. If he takes it to court I think I'll lose I've been so silly.

You don't need a court order to release money from TDS. You need one side or the other to drop the dispute.
Citizens' Advice are wrong. I used to volunteer there as a student and they're often wrong and speak in generalisations. Also, legally, they cannot give you legal advice because they are not qualified to do so. You'd only need to pay his costs if you were in the wrong. Did you damage the property like he's saying you did? If so, then he should get to keep your deposit.
I'm a bit confused by the numbers here. How much was the deposit in total? How much did you get back? How much is currently being held by TDS because of the dispute?
Remember that the landlord needs to prove you caused the damage. What is the damage? Did you cause it? Were you there when the inventory was done? Did you sign it? What have you agreed to in your contract?

That is the issue Bump though, they won't let me withdraw the dispute! Believe me I am willing, I just want out of this mess now. I emailed to say i wanted to withdraw it but TDS say they can't now they know there is a dispute. Do you think I should complain to them?
Surely I should be allowed to stop it if I started it :( Once the money is in the TDS they won't release it without a court order. It's definitely true it's on their website. The system is so much more complicated than they make it out.

The deposit was 1500 and i got back 375 but on a conditional basis as he said he was still getting quotes. Then he wrote and said he had priced it all up at 800 (he gave me quotes and pointed out the inventory where it says it wasn't damaged when I moved in blah blah but i think his quotes are too high and I know the inventory says those things are damaged and i should replace them but it's just stupid stuff like a missing knob on the cooker and stuff that must be like 10 quid?!)

He never asked me for the 800 though so I think i should have just kept quiet and he might have just dropped it.

If your deposit was £1500 and he wants £800 but only gave you £375 then doesn't he still owe you £325? That's even if you let him have whatever he wants...
The situation is either that:
a) You caused damage for which you are liable and it should cost around £800 so the landlord can deduct £800 from your deposit and return £700 to you. If this is the case then why did you raise a dispute?
b) You caused damage for which you are liable but it should not cost as much as £800 so the landlord should be allowed to deduct some but not as much as £800. If this is the case then you would not have to cover his fees.
c) You did not cause damage that you're liable for and your full deposit should be returned to you. In this case, why do you think you would lose your case? You would not need to cover any legal costs because you did nothing wrong.
d) I'm missing something...

Deposit: 1500
Returned: 1125 "on conditional basis pending quotes for parts and labour"
Retained: 375

He then followed up with more quotes and they add up to 800 (just over). I said i disagreed and i want my 375 back and he said no, you owe a lot more than that, see A and B and C etc.

I think if I had just surrendered the 375 he might have just left it there as he never asked me for the 525 or anything. But now I've raised the dispute for 375 and he is saying he doesn't agree that's the amount in dispute so can't consent to the TDS process and that if we litigate he'll be going after the full amount owed.

The inventory does say there are things that are "tenant cost to make good / replace" I just think the quotes he gave me are overinflated, it was like 75 + VAT for the cooker knob?! Because of the inventory I think if the judge sees it there are going to side with him and then it'll be a judgement against me :( Not because I think it's fair but because he has all this evidence.

Sorry *425 not 525 my maths is terrible lol

OP your numbers don’t seem to add up here, can you please clarify how much the landlord has already returned to you, is it $375 or $1125?

I know what you're saying but 800 (plus court fees and everything)... it's a lot of money to me right now. I am just kicking myself because I should have let sleeping dogs lie but my boyfriend was egging me on to file a TDS dispute because it "couldn't do any harm" and he said the TDS always finds for the tenant

I can't give you any advice but from personal experience I can tell you that the TDS don't always find for the tenant, I know this is too late now but please don't let your boyfriend tell anyone else that as it isn't true and might lead to others not making the right choices

Some of your posts are hard to follow, brevity would be appreciated

What exactly is he claiming for?

The deposit scheme will side with tenants over unfair deductions. As will the court. If you haven’t done anything wrong, I would push forward with the claim whether that’s with the deposit scheme or court.

Did you take photos before you moved out? Or when you moved in?

Both the scheme and court will only make you pay reasonable costs, so if he’s overinflated any charges they will bump them down.

and returned 375 i.e. 75% of my deposit to me on a "conditional basis"

The deposit was 1500 and i got back 375

Returned: 1125 "on conditional basis pending quotes for parts and labour"
Retained: 375

Which is it?? All of these posts contradict each other

In my experience op. I always just let sleeping dogs lie as long as I get lost of my deposit back. I have rented many properties and it always ends the same! I learnt now unless they give nothing back. As long as I get at least 75% I keep quiet. Shouldn't be the way but unless you want a head ache it isn't worth it. Not that that helps you now.

Listen to the PP who's a lawyer. She has give good information

@Mnthrowaway20202

and returned 375 i.e. 75% of my deposit to me on a "conditional basis"

The deposit was 1500 and i got back 375

Returned: 1125 "on conditional basis pending quotes for parts and labour"
Retained: 375

Which is it?? All of these posts contradict each other

I thought I was being dense as I don't understand what's happened, relieved to see that I haven't got lockdown brain

Ok the inventory clerk was wrong to say if items were damaged by you, the report should state the condition not say who is responsible for the damage. It's supposed to be a record of the condition of the place.

I hate clerks that do this as it is not their job to state you should pay.

Oh just to add if the LL refuses to go down the TDS route first courts will not be happy with him

Do he returned £1125, but you were not happy and still wanted £325. He said no, and didn't want to go to arbitration because from his perspective he actually returned more than what it's cost him.

He is refusing the adjudication option because he sees it that he's already given you too much.

If you go to court, it usually goes against the one refusing to go through adjudication because they are in essence wasting the courts. Judges don't like this.

So it will come down to whether he can evidence that the costs were more than £375 and you were therefore lucky to get £1125 back.

What did the inventory quote as damage? We might be able to tell you if it is likely worth more than £375.

I am a clerk. I didn't check outs every day and part of the report is to assign liability, e.g. fair wear and tear, maintenance issues or damage.

The first 2 are a recommendation that the landlord bears the cost of any repair, the third that the tenant may owe some monies as compensation for damage done.

Was there a clerk and were they an independent third party?