Whether he goes or stays, do you think the damage is done? To Boris (another Cummings thread)

[CarolynMartens]

Whether he apologises or not, or resigns or not. I hope it is, but I’d be interested in everyone’s views.

YABU - no it’s not done
YANBU - yes Boris and government is damaged already

I couldn’t care less whether he stays or goes. The damage is done now regardless.

Lockdown is over in all but name and I’d guess the chances of the public adhering to track and trace are dead in the water, in no small part due to the powers that be disregarding their own rules when it suits them

I think it does matter. One, it’s now very obvious to everyone that the PM cannot make his own decisions. That was known in Westminster. Now everyone knows.

Two, this government is happy to make laws that it really only thinks of as applying to others. That should alarm anyone who thinks that the law should apply equally. Some people think this does not matter. It does.

Three, the PM is very poor at presenting himself. He needs to get a lot better. His performance has been terrible. Yesterday he struggled to complete sentences. The other week he was banging his fists on his desk.

Four, the PM is now a laughing stock across the world. Cummings doesn’t give a damn but the world’s press described the PM as the monkey, not the organ grinder.

Yes, it’s been very damaging for the PM. His celebrity may do him okay for his domestic agenda (I mean Cummings’ agenda) but he looks like he’s had his balls cut off as a leader.

Everyone, please look up Cumming's project that we are funding - ARPA, as well as Analyst and 'Peter Thiel Palantier'

thisenglishlife can you share a link?

It’s nothing new. Boris is renowned for being a liar, cheat and general twat. Not sure why people are surprised tbh, especially those who voted Tory five months ago.

It’s not new news that these guys are lying fuckers who think they’re above the rules.

What is now obvious, that wasn’t to me before, is that BoJo is utterly reliant on Dom the SPAD and dancing to his tune. I knew he had influence, but not that much. That’s really worrying.

BJ said yesterday his eyesight was affected by Covid, he never needed glasses before etc.

Yet here is an article from 2014.

Lies. More and more lies.

I think they could get back a shred of credibility to their public health messages if Cummings goes now but the longer it goes on and leaving the push to come from the public rather than from the Government is causing more damage. At the moment people are going to continue to mock the public health messages and not abide by them - why should they, the Government clearly don’t care if you do, especially if you have caring responsibility for something as exceptional as a small child!

I doubt the public will care after a couple more days unfortunately. (Many don’t have the luxury of the mental space required to stay angry)

And thank you to all the ninnies who stayed/stay in meaning I have not lost anyone close to me to COVID-19, so far.

@madroid I do so agree
Whatever Johnson does it does not seem to matter.
Britain has the politicians it deserves, unfortunately.

It’ll be biased towards Boris being finished on here because of the massive left wing bias. Personally, no he’s not done. There is a lot of support for him out there if you would leave your bubble and look out

DC and BJ are taking us all for mugs.

The contempt in which they hold the general public has never been more apparent, but there are still people who support Johnson. Some people I know who are not, to my knowledge, raving right wingers or extreme Brexiteers who think Cummings is God, are more outraged by the hypocrisy of the press pack outside his house not social distancing, than they are by Cummings' own behaviour.

I've seen Twitter pile ons saying Beth Rigby was "rude" because she did her job properly (although from Cummings supporters I think) and the press being criticised left, right and centre, when in fact proper investigative journalists seem few and far between nowadays.

I think Johnson will get away with it.

And the way they dare use the word "integrity" (Gove said it of DC today) takes my breath away.

Signed a proud Ninny.

Massive damage done. Boris is a puppet, may as well just admit that dc is the prime minister.

Lies. More and more lies.

But a stupid and pointless lie in that case. Why lie about that? He really can't help himself I think. (Not that that's an excuse.)

Yes , damage is done . They are trying to take us for fools . I have voted Tory in the past , sometimes, but will stand firm never to vote for them again. Furious at Boris’ approach to answering questions. He is prime minister not a president or dictator. He answers to the public and I’m disgusted at many things including the way he cuts off reporters and refuses to answer questions. Wish we had an election looming .

I was a very reluctant Tory voter in December, I was so angry with the destruction of the Health service after 2010, that I really didn't want to trust them.

And so I have been tearing my hair out for the past few weeks at how awful this administration has been. Like them or loathe them, the Tories were supposed to be the grown-up, competent party and they have completely fucked this up.

They have taken us for mugs.

On saturday I wouldn't have given Cummings 48 hrs. Today I think he will survive to carry on his purge of the Government and Civil Service.

But there is now a competent leader of the opposition party, and I feel that as Boris gets held increasingly to account, life is going to become evermore uncomfortable for him.

There is a lot of support for him out there

I agree. However regardless of which party people support, why would anyone support a scruffy incompetent who has winged it his whole life, relying on his contacts and alleged charm to get on. He's a terrible speaker, a known liar in both his professional and personal lives, who's been sacked as a politician and a journo for that very reason. He's also an ineffectual leader.

Without Brexit he would never have got such a huge majority but I still don't get it. Who in their right mind wants someone they consider "a good laugh" running the country instead of someone competent.

This country will rue the day he became PM.

Damage is done. For me it's not so much about the breaking of the rules (though knowingly travelling with the virus is pretty bloody awful) it's the rest of then lining up to tell us that what he did was absolutely fine and indeed laudable, and just shows that he really loves his family, and being prepared to retrospectively rewrite the rules to get him off the hook.

Lots of people now who are already in a lot of pain are feeling like the government is sneering at them for obeying the rules.

Lots of people will think "well if having a 4 year old and possibly getting ill justifies his trip, then surely I can do my much more justified thing - maybe it doesn't break the rules after all.

Lots of people will think "since the government thinks one man's career is more important than public health messaging and takes us for fools, how can I trust them to make decisions about what is and isn't safe".

We are in a real mess now and the government has no moral authority. How can they lead us through this now?

On saturday I wouldn't have given Cummings 48 hrs. Today I think he will survive to carry on his purge of the Government and Civil Service.

Yes, I think he will be plotting vengeance hard. Will he interesting to see what leaks out about his "enemies" in the coming weeks, months and years. Wouldn't want to be badly on the wrong side of that guy. Crikey.

I’m a floating voter.

This has totally affected how I’d vote right now.

I can’t abide liars and I can’t abide people who won’t apologise when they should.

Also agree with @rainylake.
The others all lining up to defend him made it 100 times worse. Like a boys club of liars protecting each other.

It hasn't changed my opinion about Boris, because it was pretty low to begin with if I'm honest - he is a known liar and has lost jobs to it before.

What has surprised me a bit is his insistence on hanging on to DC when it makes Boris look so bad himself, it is a very public demonstration of his (Boris) poor judgement. He's got the majority to carry on as PM, but he's lost public goodwill and trust over this and dragged the cabinet down with him. The longer it goes on for, the worse it gets. He could have taken decisive action and sorted this quickly instead of this drawn-out process.

What is now obvious, that wasn’t to me before, is that BoJo is utterly reliant on Dom the SPAD and dancing to his tune. I knew he had influence, but not that much. That’s really worrying

This is the most damning and concerning aspect of the whole debacle. My jaw dropped yesterday when Cummings said yesterday that he routinely screens what information the PM receives.

I absolutely detested Thatcher but, give her her due, she had integrity. Cummings’ feet wouldn’t have touched the ground in her day.

DH says the traffic today is like a normal day.

Lockdown is over.

No one will listen if/when the second wave comes.

Or rather, will just use their best judgement and interpretation.