British Airways

[BABetrayal13]

On 15th June, I will be made redundant from the job I love after 15 years of loyal service. Redundancy notices are to be issued to 43,000 of my colleagues: the entire workforce. Yep, you heard right!

31,000 "lucky" former employees will then be offered re-employement on a far inferior contract that the company has wanted to enforce since 2010. For me, this would represent a 60% pay cut. Again, you heard right!

This is to be accompanied by an increase in productivity of 25%, not to mention far inferior T&Cs and, basically, a zero-hours contract.

All of this is with a backdrop of our CEO's bonus of £3.2 million in March this year; he’s been paid £33 million over the last 9 years. For the financial year '19/'20, the company I work for made a near record-breaking operating profit of £1.9 billion. I received no bonus; not a penny. Yep, you heard right!

The company I work for has the biggest cash reserves of any airline on this planet: £9 billion. During this "fight for survival", the company I work for is in the process of spending £1billion buying another airline. You heard right!

Nobody is saying we shouldn't all do our bit and take a shared responsibility approach as we ride this storm. However....! The company I currently work for absolutely refuses to negotiate. You heard right! 😡😠🤬🤬
#BAbetrayal

<strong>*Post edited by MNHQ</strong>*

There’s nothing unethical about a business reducing its staffing levels, and the salaries of those who wish to remain on board (non-intended !) in order to remain as a viable business. Those who believe or know that they are worth more will of course move on and negotiate what they want and/or deserve.

Whilst those effected may naturally feel an air of disappointment, and in some cases, they will take it personally, being made redundant, or being offered a contract on a reduced salary by no means constitutes being screwed over.

If you’re made redundant, you have been paid for your efforts up to date and will more than likely receive as a minimum statutory redundancy pay, in some cases (BA ?) an enhanced package.

If you’re offered a contract on a lower salary, if that’s all you’re worth, then you’ll take it, and by definition you’re nit being screwed over. If you’re worth more, then you’ll move on, and get more and simply won’t allow yourself to be screwed over.

I really don’t see the issue ?

I also don’t understand a particular phrase that’s repeatedly being used With reference to this topic about BA, and that’s “Loyal staff”.

In the specific context of BA, can anyone enlighten me as to the differences between “staff” and “Loyal staff” ?

Perhaps the “Loyal staff” are those who over the years haven’t defected to one of their employers competitors for what would inevitably be a significantly reduced salary, and less favourable conditions in most cases ?

I’m not really sure what else that loyalty may infer ?

At least the current situation is a great opportunity for companies to once and for all rid themselves of all of the deadwood.

My friend is also BA and her wage will drop by about £11000 per year. She decided though that she will, if offered, take redundancy. She has been with them for about 29 years so I would consider that to be loyal.

That is obscene

It's lucky everyone fought so hard to ensure Universal Credit is more than adequate to live on when the unemployed were being shafted isn't it, or all these newly unemployed would truly be screwed...oh...

I don't know. No one is going to fly much for a long time. All those big companies who used business class for their staff are shafted the same as everyone else and won't be sending people on nice foreign trips. So if no one is flying they don't need any staff. They won't make any profits.

But what might happen if enough people in the country have their work pay and conditions reduced so they can't make enough to pay their way is that the gov brings in laws that restrict the use of zero hour contracts and limits CEO's salaries. I think zero hour contracts are wrong. How can anyone run their lives with it.

I have a friend in same position. She’s expecting a £10k pay cut. How is that fair?

My DSis works for them and is also expecting to have the inferior new contract forced on her. She’s also been told she’ll get two weeks’ pay as redundancy, even though she’s been there 16 years. Never mind barely legal, it isn’t legal.

If you’re worth more, then you’ll move on, and get more and simply won’t allow yourself to be screwed over
I really don’t see the issue

And where have you been for the last 2 months @Realistica11y ?

I've had a long relationship with BA, both as a passenger and with someone who works for the airline.

BA, BASSA, and Unite need to put aside hyperbole and claiming the other side is entirely wrong and horrible then sit down and try to discuss this like civillised people. No silly claims from Ted Cruz and Willie Walsh and no flouncing by the unions.

I hope that BA survive these awful days - other airlines might not - and would like to see a return to flying with the crews who have been professional and made flying a pleasure. Both sides need to take a deep breath and find some way to look at the long view as well as look at what will happen in the next few months.

@Blackdog19

“ I have a friend in same position. She’s expecting a £10k pay cut. How is that fair”

How is it unfair ? - Isn’t she free to work for whoever she pleases and for whatever salary she can negotiate based on her skill set ?

Her employer has no obligation, neither legal, nor moral to provide her with employment at any salary level indefinitely. If, following an internal review, they inform her of a salary reduction then, if she’s choosing not to (read perhaps unable to) secure a position elsewhere on a significantly higher salary, then it’s perfectly fair.

Again, if she doesn’t like it, she’s free to apply for a job anywhere, in any market, and get whatever salary she’s able to command.

Unless I’m mistaken, nobody’s forcing her to work for her current employer ?

She’s also been told she’ll get two weeks’ pay as redundancy, even though she’s been there 16 years. Never mind barely legal, it isn’t legal.

Told by who (whom?)?

AFAIK the various Unions involved (UNITE/GMB/BALPA and probably others) are still in negotiations with BA over the level of any redundancies required and any compensation involved for those who lose their jobs.

FWIW I've now seen the original post several times now on social media, copied and pasted, with a few details changed such as length of service being with edited to fit in the posting individuals circumstances..

I do agree it's a highly stressful time for anyone working in the airlines, that UNITE need to run a robust campaign but TBH I'm not sure using this template with everybody dressing it up as their own original thoughts is the smartest move.....

@ProfessorRadcliffeEmerson

My DSis works for them and is also expecting to have the inferior new contract forced on her. She’s also been told she’ll get two weeks’ pay as redundancy, even though she’s been there 16 years. Never mind barely legal, it isn’t legal.

“Isn’t legal” ?

Since she isn’t being made redundant, but instead being “offered”, not “forced”, but again offered an alternative position within the company which she is choosing to accept, it’s actually a very generous offer, and one which very few employers would make.

Sad as this whole situation is, I agree with @Realistica11y

This is a business who is going to have fight tooth and nail over the next few years to keep going. Personally, I have no interest in flying anywhere for a while. I'm not the only one. Of course, they need to restructure. Of course they need to lose some staff, they're not going to be running as many flights anymore.
Any business (well, any big business) is going to employ the person they can pay the least to do the job. So, if you're paid £40k a year, and somebody else will do the same job as you for £20k, then of course they're going to employ the £20k person.
It's up to you to negotiate and prove you're worth £20k more or take your skills elsewhere.
I am very sorry for you though, this is a massive blow, but I don't think it's realistic to not expect an airline to restructure in the current climate.

I don't know much about the airline industry, but I have a vague recollection of reading that staff who have been at BA a long time have contracts that pay them vastly more then the going rate for the jobs. (The going rate having gone down over the years.) The CEO is paid to solve that problem where he legally can.

Morality is in the eye of the beholder, from the company point of view it is unfair that they are forced by law to pay more than the going rate for some staff. In a cut-throat industry a higher staff cost could in theory put them out of business, though I gather BA have far from the weakest finances.

The companies billions are neither here nor there. Even if they weren't needed for anything, they're not their to benefit employees who've already been paid for their service. There is nothing moral about wanting to confiscate a (tiny) portion of my pension so you can be overpaid to do a job. (BA are a listed company, so anyone with a funded pension is likely to own a small slice of it.)

I can sympathise with anyone facing a pay cut, but I can also recognise bogus emotive arguments against it. (Have seen the same in my industry, where very intelligent people manage to come up with very sincere arguments about why they should continue to pay half the marginal rate of tax of other people earning the same as them.)

It's all about costs & shareholders & the fat cats !

I was made redundant, a couple of years ago. My job was offshored to a non European country, where wages & benefits were extremely small by comparison. My 20+ years experience was lost & all the contacts that I had built up over the years. It's the customers who are suffering

I sympathize

Why do companies do this, because they can !

@BABetrayal13

If you are indeed a BA employee who just forgot to mention that this wasn't her own words, rather than just creating a post to stir the pot, may I ask if you are one of the "old guard"? I.e. are you one of those on the older, exceptionally generous contracts, (worldwide fleet)?

If so, maybe you should have made concessions a few years back and maybe now they wouldn't be looking at having to lay off quite so many staff...

Either way, if you don't like what your employer is offering, feel free to apply to another airline. I can pretty much guarantee that you won't get a package even remotely comparable to even the lesser one that BA are going to offer. I don't blame any business in this current environment attempting to lower costs in order to survive long term nor do I blame them for trying to get rid of the overpaid entitled baggage and make all staff equal.

I’ve long heard of this issue
BA seem to hate their staff

It shit and they will probably sadly get away with it
I’m so sorry

But given the longer term issues on the travel sector it’s a pragmatic time to consider leaving the sector and retraining

But it truly sucks

Hi BABetrayal13,

We're really sorry to hear what a tough time this is for you and your colleagues right now.

We've edited your opening post as we don't allow links to petitions on our main talk boards but you're welcome to post the link again in Petitions and Activism if you wish.

All the best

I don't know much about the airline industry, but I have a vague recollection of reading that staff who have been at BA a long time have contracts that pay them vastly more then the going rate for the jobs. (The going rate having gone down over the years.) The CEO is paid to solve that problem where he legally can.

According to reports some crew are receiving pay cuts of 50%-60% bringing their salary down to £24k pa, if true this would have some cabin crew earning £48k plus pa on top of pretty generous pensions and benefits. This is while working alongside colleagues in Mixed Fleet who do the same jobs for much less favourable terms. While I feel bad for anyone going through the stress of redundancy the idea that some loyal staff deserve to be paid more than other loyal staff doing the same jobs is unreasonable.

Realistic11y

Are you a BA manager ? I can't see any history for you - have you name changed for this?

It's just that you sound like a BA manager.

.

Isn't British Airways a Spanish owned company now?

TBH I'm not sure playing the man/woman rather than the ball is particularly helpful.

I think anybody looking at the reality of what is going on in aviation pretty much worldwide surely must be able to see that airline employee groups aren't going to get through this unscathed. Yes it sucks, but it really sucked for Thomas Cook employees, Flybmi employees etc.

Unfortunately AFAIK there is scope in UK legislation for significant changes to be made to roles, after consultation, and then re-hiring into the new roles.

I belatedly gather that one or two unions have a cunning plan which involves refusing to engage in these consultations at BA...presumably they hope that if they aren't involved in meaningful consultations then their members can't be involved in any redundancies or redeployment...

IMHO I think a better approach would be to accept there is going to be some form of "damage" and for the Unions to engage in some sort of damage limitation rather than a communal sticking of fingers in ears hoping it will all go way..because sadly it won't.

Oh, and I'm not a BA manager.

This i what happened with the NHS Agenda for Change and local gov Single Status and many other organizations. It's rubbish but necessary BA to stand any chance of surviving.