are furloughed people the new benefit scroungers?

[ghostmous3]

According to some posts that are doing the rounds on shitebook they are

Before lockdown people moaned about the 'feckless workshy' now the vitriol is aimed at the 'furloughed sitting on thier bums on beaches spreading germs, how dare they when weve got to work. We're paying for you're furlough'

I'm feeling bloody sensitive tonight. I didn't ask to be furloughed, I'm more than likely getting made redundant at the end of july and I dont go to beaches!

It’s a gross attitude. Furloughed workers don’t have a lot of choice over the matter, and anyone who isn’t an idiot could see that if furloughed workers lost their jobs instead, the overall financial toll would be significantly higher.

I doubt many people would choose the pay reduction and the job uncertainty that comes with furlough, but even if people are enjoying the time out of work, who cares? You have to have very little empathy or decency to begrudge a programme keeping people fed, housed and clothed during one of the worst crises this country has ever faced.

I don't have a problem with people being furloughed but are they really allowed to work elsewhere as well whilst furloughed?

Yes, and there are some obvious reasons for and benefits to that. The first is that some people have more than one job, and implementing a rule preventing them from being furloughed from one but not the other would have required more time and work. The furlough scheme had to be introduced very quickly and thus needed to be as simple as possible.

Another is that there are sectors requiring workers at the moment, and some, by no means all furloughed workers would be able to do that work. If you require people to forfeit their furlough pay in order to go and take a temp role as a driver, track and tracer, carer etc, that's a substantial disincentive you've just created.

You have to have very little empathy or decency to begrudge a programme keeping people fed, housed and clothed during one of the worst crises this country has ever faced

Absolutely

I don't have a problem with people being furloughed but are they really allowed to work elsewhere as well whilst furloughed? If so I think that's shocking that they can be paid most of their wages by the government and still work elsewhere and get paid again? Or have I misunderstood?

The terms of the scheme state that employees on furlough cannot work or volunteer for their employer, but can work elsewhere.
However some employers have written into the furlough agreement that workers furloughed by them cannot work elsewhere.
I'm a bit on the fence about it. In the lower paid jobs, where 20% loss is causing a problem, I do think people should be able to make it up by working elsewhere temporarily, while still having a job to go back to, so they aren't in debt.
However I think people getting 80% and earning a full time wage elsewhere and doing well out of it while on furlough is wrong. But that's just my personal view.

My son has been furloughed, he is pretty certain he won't have a job to go back too. He has two young children, and a mortgage to pay. For his mental health, he has decided to spend this time like he is on paternity leave and enjoy the time with his children.
When he is made redundant, life will be really difficult, and some are annoyed he might actually be making the best of it. I am sure those who have worked throughout won't want to change places with him then.

I'm not allowed to work elsewhere whilst on furlough. My boss explicitly told me this on the day I was furloughed.

I don't think I'd feel comfortable working elsewhere anyway as there are people who have already lost their jobs and have no income who really need those jobs right now.

Clearly, the people who think all furloughed workers are lazy, workshy scroungers are that way inclined themselves, as they lack the empathy to understand other motivations. This belief of theirs comes from deep within their own psyche.

At the start of this crisis the country pulled together. Clapped and supported NHS and keyworkers, worried together about jobs and financial security, all stayed home, stayed safe, home educated dcs with the best of our ability, cried at the news, most people loved Boris.

As time has gone on the attitudes have changed. People on furlough are more worried about their jobs, teachers don't feel safe going back, we never saw the same situation as Italy so then people start questioning the need for lockdown and missing family despite the 1000s of deaths.

And then people start getting bored with their situation and envious of others and the anxiety is still there. The message changed from Stay Home to Stay Alert and most importantly for some Go Back To Work.

So the people who have worked through thought well at least everyone will be at work now, the economy needs it, I'm on my knees here, I don't want to keep Doing It For My Country when the rest of them are sat on the beach.

The message has changed now and people do need to go back to work. The problem is atm the employers and businesses aren't so keen. Their biggest bills (salaries) are being covered until the end of June. They don't know what their business will look like if they pull people back in. They will have issues with staff with increased risks because of health conditions and how to protect them, staff with massive childcare issues, staff that have wfh and don't want to come back.

Plus schools don't want to go back which creates another shitshow.

Meanwhile the media and social media puts more divisions in.

The furlough scheme was to protect jobs and the economy. For it to be a success as many people as possible need to have a job to go back to. Many of those jobs are still there it will just take time to sort a new way of work out. Businesses just need to try and find a way and be seen to finding a way otherwise people will start judging. It shouldn't be individual employees who should be judged it should be the businesses and employers who should be judged.

There was a thread yesterday I commented on and it was clear on that thread that some areas were adamant that we should all still Stay Home. While other areas had managed to open up and will be making money. That's the issue, nothing is the same and there will be envy for those at home, being paid while others are out grafting.

The government needs to be firmer with its go back to work message and those businesses who refuse to make changes to be 'covid compliant' who have had funding and furlough payments should be told that support will disappear unless they make a real effort.

People on furlough didn’f choose to be! I’m sure DH would like to go to work for a break rather than spending every waking minute with a toddler!

However I think people getting 80% and earning a full time wage elsewhere and doing well out of it while on furlough is wrong. But that's just my personal view.

I totally understand why you think this and I’m not criticising your opinion. But I think for the furlough scheme to work it needed to be as simple as possible, and it would be complicated if the employer had to sack the employee in order for them to take on another temp job, for example.

A furloughed worker who’s also earning money in another job is contributing more tax, contributing to society and the economy via their work, and probably either spending more (helping the economy) or saving (meaning they’ll be in a better position if/when they lose their job/s) - either way the money ends up back in the system.

So although it seems unfair it may well be the best outcome in a very unusual situation.

most people loved Boris. hardly!

I am furloughed, I haven't worked since March 20th. I didn't ask for it, I was told I couldn't work so that was that. I'm also on 80% wages and my employers aren't topping it up so because I've furlough I've also had to take a wages cut. I'm also homeschooling 2 DC one of whom is only 5 so it's not easy by any means, and we haven't sat on any beach.
It's not the same as benefit scroungers I don't think as I'm hoping I still have a job to go back to but again I don't know for certain like others.

The problem is atm the employers and businesses aren't so keen. Their biggest bills (salaries) are being covered until the end of June.

I think this is bollocks.

There will be outliers of course, but businesses know that every day they stay closed makes it harder to get back. There are lots and lots and lots of logistical issues to consider, which many are working through now, but every business owner I know is chomping at the bit to get back.

Your friends on fb are the wrong friends. Dont follow them anymore.

You're right op. And some of the bashers already trying to justify it by saying they're only bashing the bad lazy furloughed people.... as in the deserving vs undeserving.... immigrants v "ex-pats"..... . See also vitriol against teachers, it used to be junior doctors, firefighters, police etc.

That's really sad, if it's not. As enough having those horrible feelings when you're furloughed and the stigma around it, people are actively making it worse
I've had to furlough around 20
People in my teams, it's not pleasant to have to do it 😔

My employers produced a furlough agreement under which, if they didn't recover the furlough pay from the government "for any reason" then I would have to repay it. They couldn't understand why I refused to sign it, even when I asked why on earth I should be expected to bear the loss if, say, the reason they didn't recover money was because the wages department cocked up.

To he fair the difference between some benefit claimants and the furloughed is minimal. My sister swapped jobs at the wrong time and is now on UC with a harsh benefit cap. She will still have her job, but can't be furloughed.

She's now hit with the benefit cap and down £1000 a month. Very unfair but such is life.

Before all of this, many benefit claimants were also in work, became unemployed, or became single then had trouble with childcare and had to claim. The "scroungers" would probably find it hard to get and keep employment anyway and they have always been the minority.

I'm still working and happy to be doing so. The only difference between the people I know who claim UC and those furloughed is that they have a better deal financially and a higher probability of having a job to return to.

Let's just stop judging people, regardless of what government department puts money into their bank account. And then let's continue with that attitude going forward.

(And I'm a Tory 😂)

I've come off facebook for a bit,
Best thing you can do.

YANBU. Seen this and had to correct someone on my local page, as she was going on about her and those still working having to pay for us furloughed to lord it up at home/the beach/where ever doing nothing apart from causing the NHS to collapse and the virus to spread blah blah blah.
People are thick, but they are infuriating.

I totally understand why you think this and I’m not criticising your opinion. But I think for the furlough scheme to work it needed to be as simple as possible, and it would be complicated if the employer had to sack the employee in order for them to take on another temp job, for example.

This is exactly right. People forget how quickly this had to be brought in. There are lots of ways the scheme itself could be improved, although stopping people on furlough taking or continuing to work in already existing second jobs isn't necessarily a positive even if we didn't have to worry about speed and simplicity. Means testing, for example. But when you have to do something as quickly as possible, your options are limited.

Remember there are still employers who chose not to use it because of the month's delay in allowing claims to be submitted. Delay that even another week in order to tinker around the edges a bit, more jobs would've gone.

Furlough isn't a choice for most people - their employers put them on furlough. Same with going back to work, they will be told when they are required and be expected to return on that date.

I totally understand why you think this and I’m not criticising your opinion. But I think for the furlough scheme to work it needed to be as simple as possible, and it would be complicated if the employer had to sack the employee in order for them to take on another temp job, for example.

Yes I totally agree that it needed to be simple and that by the sheer speed it needed to be set up there couldn't be clauses left right and centre for this and that situation, because that would have just slowed everything down.

A furloughed worker who’s also earning money in another job is contributing more tax, contributing to society and the economy via their work, and probably either spending more (helping the economy) or saving (meaning they’ll be in a better position if/when they lose their job/s) - either way the money ends up back in the system.

Yes, can see that, and that it's a positive thing for the economy. My personal view on it though is that a person on furlough, taking another ft position, removes that position for others to do, like those already redundant or those who were seeking work when this started. The money would go back into the economy that way and instead of having one person on furlough at the same time as earning a wage, and another on benefits, you'd have one person on furlough and one earning a wage. I realise it's quite a simple view, and I by no means judge anyone doing it, everyone needs to do what's right for them during this while also trying to consider the wider aspects. Sometimes the two clash which is unavoidable really.

I could also see it being another bone of contention for those still working, they're working for their wage, where as a furloughed worker is working for their wage, and also getting furlough.

So although it seems unfair it may well be the best outcome in a very unusual situation.

Yes, there are never absolute solutions to anything as complicated as this, decisions have to be made and made on the information available at the time, with the best interests of society as a whole to consider.

What a shocking and horrible sentiment. I am a nurse going to work every day I do not resent furloughed workers that would be silly and irrational. As if they chose it! Some of them might be secretly glad if they hated their jobs but so what?