are furloughed people the new benefit scroungers?

[ghostmous3]

According to some posts that are doing the rounds on shitebook they are

Before lockdown people moaned about the 'feckless workshy' now the vitriol is aimed at the 'furloughed sitting on thier bums on beaches spreading germs, how dare they when weve got to work. We're paying for you're furlough'

I'm feeling bloody sensitive tonight. I didn't ask to be furloughed, I'm more than likely getting made redundant at the end of july and I dont go to beaches!

There's no way this furlough scheme is cheaper than UC.

I don't think the furlough scheme was actually put in place for the people on furlough. It was to protect businesses, and by that I mean the likes of Tim Martin and co. Not the economy as such.

Also UC cannot cope with the number of people who have forced to apply for it, it couldn't apply to more.

And with furlough they can keep up the pretence that people on benefits are somehow lesser than those facing hardship now. Even though most people on benefits are on them for equally genuine reasons. They don't actually want people to realise just how shockingly badly vulnerable people, or people who hit hard times, are actually treated.

Long term it is cheaper though. It retains jobs so less people will be unemployed at the end which means they will pay it back slowly in tax in the future rather than end up unemployed costing more in tax longer term.

It doesn't retain any more job that people being laid off than rehired does. It retains moral and protects mortgages (as mortgage interest help was slashed).

Someone who was paid off on March because of COVID is no more or less likely to become a long-term benefit claimant than someone who was paid off in January because of their factory closing.

You definitely have to agree to be furloughed
It was introduced to slow down the triggering of redundancy notices, the idea being that lockdown might be pretty short
It looks like lockdown is now our new normal due to our over excitement at having strict rules to follow. I don't see the point of this ongoing furlough whatsoever.

The furlough scheme and UC are both intended to do totally different things. UC was, let's be honest, designed to make claiming support as difficult and punitive as possible so that people who have any alternative won't do it, and to force people into whatever shit low paid zero hours work there might be going on. The furlough scheme was intended to give enough people sufficient income to remain in lockdown, and to try and put parts of the economy in storage ready to be defrosted once conditions are more favourable to it. With this in mind, it's hardly surprising that they're so different.

Yes, there are also elements of the Tories not wanting to piss off their supporters too. That's very obvious. Lots of people think they're better than benefit claimants, including some who are themselves benefit claimants. Remember some of the squealing at the benefit cap from previous supporters who hadn't realised having a job didn't mean their tax credit and housing benefit claims wouldn't be affected? However even if they'd done nothing at all to the benefits system and it still looked exactly as it did when they came to power, there would still be a substantial difference between furlough pay and benefit entitlements for most of those out of work.

I feel very sorry for those furloughed but it isn't sustainable and extremely unfair to then pass the cost of it onto NHS workers who have had to work through this under real pressure with a real risk to themselves.
The whole situation has brought out the worst in people everywhere people are judging others for what they do.
I am judged as a front line NHS worker , I leave the house regularly ( to go to work), I dare to send my children to school ( so I can work), and yes my reception child will be at school 1st September, I don't go out and clap ( either at work or exhausted post work) plus I find it cringworthy.
My own mother didn't even want me to drop off shopping for her to the end of her drive as I may be infectious. I actually work in a safe area , very very busy but not covid.
I don't judge furloughed but please do not sit there judging those of us out working. I do think the costs of it should be passed back to those who have benefited or your bosses because not paying the doctors and nurses who have had to step forward when you stepped back accordingly is beyond unfair.
Also if furlough to protect us all from spread of the virus' you should absolutely be playing by the rules and staying home, no beaches, BBQs, socialising , that is what it is actually for after all to keep you home whilst the numbers die down.

1st June not September**

but it isn't sustainable and extremely unfair to then pass the cost of it onto NHS workers who have had to work through this under real pressure with a real risk to themselves.

Can you show us how the cost of furlough is being passed on to NHS workers specifically? Because I certainly haven’t seen any plans that suggest that.

@Gremlinpoop I appreciate what NHS workers are doing but nobody is judging you for going out to work. Why would anyone be judging NHS workers for working.

Again, I'll reiterate, furloughed people are not choosing to be furloughed.

but it isn't sustainable and extremely unfair to then pass the cost of it onto NHS workers who have had to work through this under real pressure with a real risk to themselves.

Furlough people paid tax before this started and will pay it again if and when I return to work. As will everyone. The idea of making people who have already lost 20% cut in wages pay extra tax sounds like you want to punish people who were put in this position through no fault of their own, and who have been best placed to comply with lockdown and reduce the rate of infection. Honestly WTF?!

Not everyone is aware of what jobs people do. I don't leave my house in scrubs ! On our local Facebook site a few snipy posts about noticing people going out In cars have appeared. I'm tired and sensitive but my naighbour made a off hand coment about my children going to school occasionally.
NHS staff are notoriously badly paid for what they actually do, skill set and educational level. Most nurse have multiple post grad qualifications for example. We will get below inflation pay rises or freezes and probably increased taxes. We don't get any danger money for going in at the moment. Public sector pay freezes are an obvious option for the government now.
I just hope it returns to normal soon and everyone can go back to your jobs.

Recouping furlough costs is an imbecile idea. Nobody who wants to do it has come up with anything resembling a viable way.

I doubt very much this a NHS thing, probably just a dishonest employee misusing NHS resources and taking advantage of the situation (If she is an employee that is)

Just report.

Well actually I said or the bosses. With the extramly wealthy buissness owners cashing In on the scheme you can hardly blame me for asking if they should not contribute towards the bill?
But no I do not think the average employee on furlough should be punished, we need to get people back to work before any more damage is done to society.

Frontline staff deserve better pay, no denying that.

Not all business owners are extremely wealthy though. Big corporations, yes, but small businesses like the one I work for aren't.

The business owners that are furloughing staff unnecessarily just to save costs should be made to pay the money back. I think employers should be required to submit proof of lost earnings.

Anyone who says something like that clearly has zero idea of what they’re talking about, so it’s not someone who I would take seriously.

Oh shouty shouty whatever. My opinion is this ongoing lockdown serves no purpose and is just slowly killing our economy. The ongoing furlough is also pointless. You may have a different opinion but for sure, no we wouldn't all be fucked by now by a virus with a 1% death rate where 80% of those deaths are amongst the elderly or the very elderly. I'd rather we'd stuck with the Swedish model. Similar death rates, less pointless lockdown. Or we could have followed the US model,no furlough. Guess what ...there are different options and different opinions on them.

We can't retrospectively require people or organisations to contribute towards furlough costs if they weren't told when they applied that this would be a condition. It is not a realistic suggestion.

‘When they came for me there was no one left to speak for me’

I think that poem rings true these days.

Ok, so who is going to speak for me when my job goes in September, just after furlough ends? You think I am going to get 6 months on 80% of my pay? I think that's a great idea of course - very German - but we all know it's UC for me, and having to prove I am looking for work, savings limit etc etc

But that’s going to happen to me too. Just a few months respite.

@NoHardSell my comment was related to the fact so many have slagged the sick and unemployed for a long time and now are getting a taste of what it’s like and aren’t liking it one bit.
I completely agree with you that furlough can’t be sustained indefinitely.

@NoHardSell I wasn't saying we'd be fucked by the virus, I was saying we'd be fucked by having 27% of the workforce made redundant overnight. You said you didn't see the point of the furlough, that is the point of the furlough. I too am not particularly in favour of the lockdown but if we have the lockdown we must have the furlough to stand any chance of avoiding a depression.

Furlough is going to push us into depression - or this ridiculous extended version is, anyway. As is this ridiculous lockdown. I can't believe the level of government incompetence driving our response to this, it goes from one disaster of mismanagement to the next.

@NoHardSell Why on earth would you imagine that those of us defending the furloughed would not also be the same posters who would defend someone like you if you are made redundant? Of course those who understand the need for furlough and don't judge also realise that UC is a pittance and is in need of reform! Direct your ire at those who are determined to judge anyone they seem to be unworthy of support, even if that's yourself, I mean empathy is a two way street.