If school cannot go back normally, they shouldn't go back?

[UnderReview]

Especially primary schools. Social distancing cannot be the new 'normal'! It will really fuck kids up. They'll be scared of normal contact and germaphobes for life. It's not OK. No school would be better than playing on your own in a chalk draw box in the playground or sitting on a table by yourself. It would be a nightmare for teachers too and is ultimately useless. If a kid sneezes on the way in to class or in the toilet and touches a tap or the wall, or coughs on a tray of pencils, etc... and they're sharing the same air in the classroom.... and the teacher cannot possibly stay two metres away, what if a child falls over or is in pain?! Or choking? I don't know what the answer is, but it can't be social distancing in schools. Or AIBU?

And special schools?

No hope of social distancing there
My nephews school has had instruction From the government that each pupil and all staff should wear masks all day every day and strict social distancing

Except these kids don’t cope with anything ‘different’ And many have serious sensory issues- so masks just won’t work
These children need noses and faces wiped constantly. And virtually no understanding of the current situation

The parents the teachers and the head are struggling how to balance it all

Approximately 39 children are killed and seriously injured everyday on their way to school. This does not stop us from sending them in.

Section 11 of the guidance is interesting:

"For younger children, the resources made available for child-initiated learning should be carefully considered. For example, malleable resources, such as play dough, should not be shared and consideration should be given to their safe use, depending on circumstances.

Resources for activities such as painting, sticking, cutting, small world play, indoor and outdoor construction activities should be washed before and after use (more detailed guidance on this will be included in the guide for early years providers) and where possible, children should be discouraged from sharing these.

Children should be taught to wash their hands frequently, but particularly after using wheeled bikes, trikes and other large, movable toys. Children should be encouraged where possible not to touch their faces or to put objects in their mouths. Sharing stories, singing and playing outdoor games will help all children to socialise and resettle into familiar everyday classroom routines."

It certainly doesn't sound like what it has been interpreted as - children with no equipment and no toys in stripped down classrooms.

@Drivingdownthe101 thanks. No I didn't get the impression there had been any changes at our school either (my kids aren't in as we're not KW but we get all the newsletters and comms). So does it seem odd to need to bring it in now for teachers' protection? Especially as the kids of key workers are arguably more likely to catch it from their parents, given their line of work?

The problem is, if you only want to send your child back when everything can be "normal" again, how long do you think this will last? In January/February, scientists said that a vaccine would take 12-18 months at a minimum. Then you need it produced in the billions and the vaccination campaign need to be rolled out.
Flu shots are already a massive logistical operation each year, and that's for about 18% of the Dutch population. I can't find info on the vaccination levels for the UK population as a whole.

Approximately 39 children are killed and seriously injured everyday on their way to school. This does not stop us from sending them in.

such a stupid comparison, the 2 situations have nothing to do with each other

@HeyBlaby

Yes. Hospital guidelines re resus state.
You can apply facial oxygen but do nothing further - only staff with full ppe (ffp3 mask / gloves / gown) can administer CPR - this is due it it being an AGP (aerosol generating procedure). The guidelines are very clear on this.
The RCN and NMC are aware of these requirements.
Of course it’s possibly a health care professional may decide to proceed without waiting for colleagues in full ppe but they would then face any repercussions after.

Please read the other two threads on this subject

I am totally fine with less hours in school and smaller classes and better hygiene and staggered playtimes.

BUT I think children returning to school should wait until the numbers are low enough that they don’t have to socially distance in their group of 15. You know so they can actually play and learn with their friends.

I also think that surely if it’s safe enough for kids to be mixing with 15 kids plus indirectly ALL of their families and possibly other classes indirectly due to siblings in other classes then surely considering the government has already said they know that children might not social distance properly surely surely it’s safe enough for them to see their grandparents? Particularly younger grandparents with no health issues. My parents are wary 50s with no health issues. I can’t see why my kids hugging their grandparents is more harmful than them going to a school full of kids that are mostly but not entirely social distancing.

@dutchyoriginal not sure on the whole population in U.K. for flu vaccine but all the kids get it in school every year unless parents withhold consent. I believe it is easily available for elderly and other at risk people as well but not sure about the general otherwise healthy adult population unless they work in healthcare. I don’t think many adults without risk factors get it. It’s definitely a large operation to be sure. I imagine they will follow the existing logistics for that to start with getting it to healthcare staff, at risk vulnerable people and then children and everyone else will likely be last or left out if they think herd immunity for the general population is the way to go.

I don’t think any school will be shouting at children , ‘putting the fear of god into them’. Parents need to explain social distancing before sending them back to school.

Appears kids round my way gave up on social distancing a while back, been playing outside in the sun today like it’s school holidays. Little sods

For me the risk to education does not overrule the risk to life and whilst children were initially in the low risk category that is no longer the case and we are seeing new associated illnesses every day.

My children will not go back unless proper social distancing can be implemented and at large schools such as Academies I just don't see how this is possible.

Why is it no longer the case that children are in the low risk category?

I am absolutely sick of the Eton comparison. Matthew Wright raised it on This Morning today. Such irresponsible journalism, I actually want to complain to ITV.

Long term, I think distance between children & young people is a good thing. Many get distracted by others & they then become very easily influenced. A little distance wouldn't be so bad....

Did everyone ignore BoJo saying he doesnt expect social distancing to be adhered to in schools??
Hes not even pretending it may be possible, why is everyone reacting as if he did

Explained the changes from my school's actual letter to mine... "OK, what's for tea?"

Half of the adaptations such as belongings in a single tray in a set space are shit I've fought for to support their SEN anyway!

When are people going to realise that they are allowing certain key year groups back, yes so that year 6 can adjust and prep for secondary school or else suffer years of mental illness. Yes so that it can help to build the economy (it's a start), yes because they have to start somewhere (do people really think that going back in Sept is the magic answer? eh what's that reasoning?) BUT mostly the reason is so that it will HELP to drive the second timed wave of covid to coincide with the summer holidays/ 'quieter' time when families will essentially be on a kind of 'lockdown' anyway. It will come and it will be in late July/ August.

I have a relative who was working temporarily at the Nightingale in London. On the record they have been told they may be needed again, off the record they have been told it is highly unlikely they will be back. Take what you will from that. I think the so called second wave they are talking about is a scare tactic.

@BackInTime where did you get that figure from. It sounds accurate for how many die in road accidents, but how do you know they happened on their way to school?

@backintime that isn't why most people have an issue with the schools going back. If the three years go back in my DS's school the rest of the school's education will suffer due to all the staff needing to be in to split those years up into groups of 15. The teachers can't teach those in school and keep the online education going. Preparing for face-to-face learning and distance learning is very different or you're doing it wrong and the kids might as well be at home.

Why should over half of the school miss out on the only education they are currently getting?
I don't see September being a magic antidote but giving September as a goal now allows schools 4 months to plan how it could work and also ensure everyone can receive an education.

I agree OP. It will be a nightmare for us as working parents to try and accommodate going in for 2 hours every few days or some such nonsense. It is also really hard on the kids to see their friends and not interact normally. My 6 year old has already asked will playdates be allowed when they go back to school since they will be in the class together.

It is absolute nonsense. Schools need to be open fully or closed and teaching delivered differently

My children will not go back unless proper social distancing can be implemented and at large schools such as Academies I just don't see how this is possible.

So what is your answer? Long term home schooling? Your kids not getting an education at all? Proper social distancing can't be implemented as you say, so either kids never go back, or compromises/alternatives are found.

The only answer is small incremental steps. Just like the govt is proposing. Start with specific year groups, in the full knowledge that maybe half the kids in those year groups won't go back at first due to shielded households or reluctant parents or whatever. See how it works. Learn from what does/doesn't work, watch what happens in other countries doing likewise. Ramp it up as and when possible every few weeks, and scale back if problems arise.

There'll never be a point in time when schools all re-open to everyone at 9am one Monday morning. People are deluded if they think that will happen. Just like the NHS, workplaces, tourist attractions, etc., getting back towards normal will be a gradual long term process and you have to start somewhere, otherwise it'll simply never happen.