Or have they just not got a clue

[Yolo2]

Jenny Harries today at the Government press briefing suggested that pencil cases will be banned at schools in case children share their contents, but lunch boxes will be allowed as she could "almost guarantee" that a child would not share their lunch with anyone sitting 2 metres away. What a load of utter nonsense. Is that based on any science whatsoever? If the Government are following the science, and this is the sort of dross the science is coming up with, we should worry!! How can a child not borrow a pencil but we can order takeaway food to our homes? How can the Deputy Chief Medical Officer "almost guarantee" that kids won't share their lunches. I'm afraid her medical training doesn't qualify her to have a better idea of the likelihood of kids sharing lunches than the average man on the street

So now we know pencils transmit Coronavirus (!) can we ever be safe using the supermarket? I handle my products, pass them to the cashier, who handles them, after touching all the products handled by every customer before me. (I understand some people have taken to bleaching their shopping but come on ) But shared pencils - prohibited. If kids can be trusted to not go near each other (?), can't they be trusted not to lend pencils?

We are in danger of utter madness invading every aspect of life. Social distancing, yes. Ridiculous rules from government on pencil cases etc. is quite another and is making things seem ludicrous.

Anyone can administer an epipen. And they are definitely breaking a number of laws in saying this and even more if they actually went through with it.

I've been working in a school on a rota basis with a group of around 10 of mixed ages. Social distancing is impossible. No other guidelines have been given- they've pretty much been allowed to carry on as normal. We've washed hands regularly, wiped tables with disinfectant before activities, tried to sit them about a metre apart- even with 10 in a room 2ms isn't achievable. Children can't spend an entire day sitting at a desk- there's been lots of free play and time spent outside- they can't play with each other from 2ms away- not doable.

More could have been done I think, but senior leaders haven't bothered to put any other measures in place in my school. I just kept as far away from children as possible- but you can't help a child read or show them a maths problem from 2ms away.

As someone said - a generation with ocd and also germ phobic

Nobody is going to refuse first aid.

@daisypond
Currently it's very different because we aren't there to provide education, it's childcare. So lots of being outside where it's easier to stay at a distance and much less equipment needed due to lower numbers in groups, so things can be cleaned easily. It's very different to school it's more like a play scheme.

So many mixed messages all the way through by government, I genuinely feel for teachers, how will it be possible to teach, maintain SD, handwashing, loo breaks. Just impossible.

I can remember swapping food from our lunchboxes!

I cannot see how from the first message of got to get herd immunity, many will die etc. To a lockdown, stay at home. Too get back to work, laughable if it wasn’t so serious.

We decided as a family to protect ourselves, as it was clear government was not going to. We have been home for 10 weeks, DS packed in his job, his boss has been fantastic and held it open for his return. I have MS and my medication works by lowering my immune system. Last week I was contacted telling me to shield until 30 June! Unbelievable. A bit late in the day to tell me. After really struggling to get shopping delivered I now get a priority slot, could have really done with that from March!

I’m a teacher and think all these letters from schools are disgusting trying to put parents off returning their children to school. Teachers need to get a grip and use their normally inventive and innovative minds to find solutions. Children need to be in school and we have to start somewhere.
Schools have been open throughout with children and staff and now we need to increase the provision.

@NeverTwerkNaked
Teachers WILL make it as happy as possible, but these letters do need to be sent out as there will be a lot of parents who don't realise that things in school will actually be very different. They think things will just be as normal, you can't hide the fact that it won't.

Here is a description of a germ-phobic adult in a book called "The Temp", written in about 1999. It looks like we will have a whole generation of people like this!

Graham, it seems, is terrified of germs. Now, we're all a little nervous about what we can pick up in offices. After all, if the Queen can get Legionnaire's disease in Buck House, what hope is there for her subjects? And as for everyone's habit of nicking other's pens and putting them in our mouths, it's a wonder that there's any of us left alive. When I met Graham, after awkwardly shaking hands, he wiped his hand with a wet wipe, before dropping it, two-fingered, into the bin. I'm so used to odd reactions from new bosses that I thought this was a new and imaginative way of making me feel unwelcome. But then I saw him do the same to three clients in a row, and they are sterile wipes: he uses more than the average surgical unit, wiping down his desk, his telephone, his computer, his fingers after he's handled a piece of paper.

While the teacher is off cleaning the loo who is supervising the 15 children? There won't be TAs available as they will be with the other 15 from the class won't they? Or are they going to employ a cleaner to be in the loo all day? That would sound more reasonable.

I wondered this - is the govt funding extra £ for cleaners for this?

And am some schools they only have 1 TA per 2 classes so that's another issue.

But some of these comments from schools seems quite OTT.

From what I've read the guidelines don't discuss social distancing within class "bubbles" - just keeping away from others outside their bubble.

If there aren't classroom breaks or outdoor free play or if they're expected to keep 2m away from other children I'd rather just keep them at home tbh.

But I think there will be, they'll need to clean outdoor equipment in between though.

It's very easy to pick holes in any rule on the basis that you want everything black or white, but people should know that that type of nitpicking is futile and basically holds no water. The aim is to reduce risk to an acceptable level, and to balance that modified risk level with risks from continuing lockdown. That's far more subtle and there could be plenty of debate had around it, but it's not this debate. If sharing pencils increases risk because pencils would end up in many hands and mouths, and is unnecessary, then I would think it's a useful way to reduce risk. It's almost irrelevant that lunchboxes aren't also banned, although there are good reasons why they can't/shouldn't be.

@LadyPenelope68
What is done regarding lunches or use of the toilets? Or pencils? Is everyone 2 metres away? How many pupils are attending? There seem to be quite a lot at my local school. So, the new regime will be all the original children plus the new ones?

My school have said it’s likely to be half days to begin with which I am more than happy with, to avoid the lunch issue. I have a year 6 and I think 3-5 mornings a week at school to begin with is perfect. She knows the score and is willing to try it out. A slow start here works. Increasing as the term goes on so she gets to say goodbye
I just don’t get the reception/year 1 the mental health implications are massive

How will they get anything else done?
They'll make adjustments to what they were used just like many other professions have had to do and will do when they reopen.

Life as we've known it is not going to be there for some time. Having to make adjustments, even significant adjustments doesn't mean that we should bother at all. Not as good is still better than nothing at all.

I’m a teacher and think all these letters from schools are disgusting trying to put parents off returning their children to school.

While I agree that scaremongering is not helpful, I think it's important that parents understand exactly how school will be for their child. It would be misleading and unfair to give the impression that's it's all going to be fine. Many seem to think that things will be pretty much back to normal but with extra hand washing and that cannot be the case. I have friends sending their child back because they need normality- well it's certainly not going to normal! Others are sending them back to see their friends- that might not happen. For some children returning to school will have a negative impact on their wellbeing and mental health, not the positive impact parents are hoping for.

Also, it might do some parents good to be reminded that we need to consider the safety of teachers too. I've lost count of how many people have said 'children don't get the virus much and if they do it's really mild, you'd barely notice they had it'... firstly that's not quite true and secondly what about the teachers? Your child might get a mild case, their teacher may not.

It's very easy to pick holes in any rule on the basis that you want everything black or white, but people should know that that type of nitpicking is futile and basically holds no water. The aim is to reduce risk to an acceptable level, and to balance that modified risk level with risks from continuing lockdown. That's great until a child dies and the calls for an investigation starts. Of course someone will have to be the one to blame and it won't be a govt minister, it won't be the head of the academy trust, it will be the teacher who was busy cleaning a toilet when Mary and John fell out and started fighting, Mary was asymptomatic, John gets ill. Teacher vilified and blamed.

I don't blame teachers wanting to cover their backs.

A big issue is first aid at many schools, my son is in reception and has an epipen, they have two members of staff trained to use his epipen, however this requires very close contact so understandably they have been told not to administer his epipen.

The chance of a teacher catching COVID from your son is relatively small

The chance of them dying from it if they are otherwise well with no existing health conditions is vanishingly small

The chance of your son coming to real harm/death if the epipen is not administered is far higher than any risk to the teacher possibly contracting COVID. who in earth carried out that bonkers risk assessment?

LadyPenelope68
It's very different to school it's more like a play scheme.

So, do we need to forget to try to teach the R/year1 children and continue to treat it as a play scheme? I thought there was international evidence that children learned better through play.

I would have thought that as much time outside as possible was preferable, assuming the school had a large enough play ground.

I am horrified that the teachers are being told not to use an Epipen. They are not difficult to use, there are videos on the internet and the risk of catching COVID from giving it is surely very low. They take less than a minute to administer.

Jenny Harries and the others are professional political appointees, they will never disagree with Govt policy, they are there to back it up!

I did find the 'Mail asking Teachers to be "hero's" distasteful, what do they want? a roll call of the teachers who have died as they did with NHS workers?

I feel for teachers and wonder if it would have made more sense to send year 4 and 5 back instead. I mean these rules won't be easy for anyone but surely will work better with the older ones.

They'll make adjustments to what they were used just like many other professions have had to do and will do when they reopen. So can you give an example of another profession who have had to do something as disruptive as stopping what they are doing every time a 4 year old needs to go to the loo, supervise them, and 14 other children in another room, and then clean the loo.

That's great until a child dies and the calls for an investigation starts. Of course someone will have to be the one to blame and it won't be a govt minister, it won't be the head of the academy trust, it will be the teacher who was busy cleaning a toilet when Mary and John fell out and started fighting, Mary was asymptomatic, John gets ill. Teacher vilified and blamed.

There is no plausable way that it could be proved that one child caught COVID from another at that precise moment. Plus, presumably the toilet cleaning is risk assessed so the reacher was carrying out a legitimate duty. Not being negligent

It is impossible to remove ALL risk from activities - thankfully coroners understand that

OP this is the same doctor who advised the government that Cheltenham festival going ahead was no risk...

Yep. The idea that because someone is a doctor/scientist that they are therefore an apolitical animal is ludicrous. She has been filtering the science to fit the needs of a right wing government that wants to be getting on with trade deals and Brexit. Fine. But don’t pretend different.

It is impossible to remove ALL risk from activities - thankfully coroners understand that That's fine then because it is always the coroners who lead the baying mobs when something goes wrong. I thought it was frequently the gutter press but if you can assure us that won't happen we can all relax.

I'm guessing the parents of four and five year olds are under Forty, so are less likely to die if the kids pass it on. This can be the only science, to try and increase herd immunity.

The government must know how four and five year olds are taught. They don't sit at desks all day. Can you imagine a five year old doing that?

The teaching is interactive play. They will mix and the virus will spread. Children are designed to interact closely and spread disease to build their immune systems.

The government know exactly what they are doing, and it is not trying to stop the spread of the virus.