To think self-employed mums are being screwed over in this support package?

[AiryFairyMum]

I dutifully did my claim for Self-Employment Income Support Scheme this morning.

I am self-employed but can't work at the moment because my industry is closed. I have always paid my tax on time, and should have been eligible for 80% of my usual profits (not takings, but that's another story). But because I took maternity leave four years ago and didn't earn as much in that one year, my average is lower, and I'm losing out on a big chunk of what I should be able to apply for.

AIBU to think that maternity leave should be exempt from the calculation for support?

[vanillandhoney]

The entire system for the self-employed is hugely flawed.

People who have been PAYE employees for years but who have only been self-employed since April 2019 don't get a penny, but others who could have been out of work for years but got a paid job in February 2020 and worked a month before they got furloughed gets between 80 and 100% of their salary up until October!

Like a PP said, everyone should have been given a basic universal income. Surely it would have been easier and cheaper to sort?

[TARSCOUT]

I find it quite interesting that SE can afford to take a years maternity leave.

[TARSCOUT]

Just realised you didn't say a year apologies however it must have been a considerable amount of time if it has decreased your average so much?

[arethereanyleftatall]

That's the problem with it @vanillandhoney, the inconsistency. If you're taking employed from feb 2020, then do the same for self employed. If you're giving employed over £50k, then give self employed over £50k. Or not for both. But be fair.

[vanillandhoney]

@arethereanyleftatall yes, exactly.

The employed are getting a much better deal out of this than the self-employed are. I think many small businesses will struggle to come back from this, especially ones that are newly set up.

I very much doubt I'll have much work at all until July at the earliest. It's very frustrating but what can you do? There's no jobs around here either so DH's salary has to support us both for now.

[ScarfLadysBag]

@TarScout Why is that more surprising than someone employed taking maternity leave? Aside from the six weeks at 90%, you get the same as someone taking SMP when you are self-employed and take MA .

I took the full maternity allowance entitlement, so nine months at £550 or whatever a month obviously resulted in a significantly smaller year for me in terms of income, just as someone employed who is on SMP for nine months would also have less money.

[SmileyClare]

Vanilla I agree. I'm definitely going to struggle for the foreseeable future. It's going to take a long time to build my client base back up and people are hesitant to spend money now. I'm now "allowed" to work in customers homes so no more government help but many people are too fearful (or vulnerable) to allow me in.

The SEISS Grant will barely cover the bills and rent arrears I have accrued after 3 months on zero income. I'm pretty fucked financially. I'm sure there a lots of people up shit creek in the same boat .

[zoemum2006]

Small company director here. Screwed with bells on.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

Xenia does it occur to you that there are many 'liars and cheats' who earn over £50K through declared SE income?

And that many people who will be entitled to financial support have also duly paid their taxes etc but haven't achieved a profit of over £50Kpa hence being eligible under this scheme.

Yes, there is unfair recompense to SE high earners compared to employed high earners - I was in favour of a capped monthly income regardless of total previous earnings.

But it does not mean that SE people with profits under £50pa are all 'liars and cheats'.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

zoemum2006 yes it's very unfair that there is no support for company directors.

Most people I know in this position eg contracting IT people have to become a ltd company in order to get contracts.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

TARSCOUT SE people are entitled to SMP at the same rate as employed people.

I had two maternity leaves, one as an employed person and one as self-employed, and received the same level of SMP both times.

[Bflatmajorsharp]

Sorry, it was Maternity Allowance when I was SE. Same rate as SMP (although I did receive a bit more for the first six weeks when I was employed).

Do you think that SE women shouldn't take maternity leave?

How odd.

[zoemum2006]

@Bflatmajorsharp Yep. That's us. I'm just glad we saved up a bit of money in case of a no deal Brexit. Didn't envision needing it for a pandemic!

[Bflatmajorsharp]

The problem with how maternity and adoption leave affects the amount due to each person is that the disparity is structural.

It is only women who take maternity leave and overwhelmingly women who take adoption leave.

It's obviously extremely unfortunate for SE people to be unable to work for a long period of time due to ill health, but that's misfortune not structural inequality. No less shit, but not sexual discrimination.

[Viviennemary]

I think the furlough scheme is a fairly generous one and I can't think how it's going to be paid for. Illness too brings the average wage down so I don't think maternity leave should be a special case.

[IllegalFred]

yes it's very unfair that there is no support for company directors.

I thought company directors who paid themselves a salary could furlough themselves and claim 80%?

[Reversiblesequinsforadults]

Signed and shared

[Bflatmajorsharp]

IllegalFred I'm sure an actual company director will be able to explain it better than me, but I think most income is dividends rather than salary.

[AiryFairyMum]

Thanks so much @reversiblesequinsforadults

That's the issue, that it affects women far more than men.

And, yes, I took some maternity leave. I saved really hard so we could afford it. Should I not have done?

[zoemum2006]

@IllegalFred You can claim 80% of PAYE but most company directors pay themselves in dividends (on which you pay corporation tax and dividend tax... ).

I could claim a very small amount but I'd have to furlough myself but I am still working a bit but I'd have to pretend I wasn't. I don't feel comfortable with that that scenario.

I'm not really moaning. It is what it is. I just hope business recovers eventually.

[IllegalFred]

Yes, if they've taken a small salary and large dividends then the furlough amount will be low but it's still more than the sole trader with over 50k profits who is entitled to nothing.

And frankly the IT contractors operating as Ltd companies should have enough put by to withstand a few months out of work.

I am a Ltd company director btw.

[zoemum2006]

@IllegalFred strangely harsh reply given I've already said I'm living off my savings.

[NC4Now]

I took a staff job for a year, which straddles two tax years, which means my self employed income only shows half a year’s earnings for 2017/18 and 2018/19. It’s cut my payment right down, which is shit considering the tax I paid for those years.
It’s not ideal, but it’s better than nothing.

[Easilyanxious]

I know someone furloughed on page and they aren't getting there full wage as they worked less hours up until about 7 months ago and there furlough was calculated from last years wages or similar so not just the self employed

[1805]

Sole trader family here in the South East. Not a penny for us either. It makes me very angry how the SE are being treated differently to Employees. It's looking like our industry might be shut until the end of the year. Thats more than we have saved up. We have a bit of income coming in from a side line, which means we can't apply for Universal Credit either.