Our children have the right to an education.

[NameChange738676756]

So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

This is a parenting issue.

But at a societal level children have a right to an education regardless of their parents or family resources.

I think the government has failed to implement the testing/tracking/tracing/isolation systems that should enable progression to what they call 'stage 2', but I also think that many children will just drift away from eduction without a lot of additional support.

A few months without school matters very much to some children.

My son has demand avoidance issues and the more you ask him to do somthing the more he digs his heels in, you have to make it think it is his idea.
Every child is differnt and some will be loving independent study and others will need pushing and motivating. I think it is very sanctimonious to say it is a parenting issue

So this is the sole responsibility of the school to deal with in terms of his education.

Ok then.

The issue with teaching is spending 6 hours, with 15 people, with no PPE and possibilty of social distancing.

What other jobs have this?

All I read here is “I’m incapable of home schooling my child so I’m shouting at teachers!”

But at a societal level children have a right to an education regardless of their parents or family resources.

Then take it to court and remove the child from their parent.

Or perhaps more sensibly target the children who have been struggling the most and / or find ways to improve online learning...

The deaths and misery that come with a depression and stagflation are not to be underestimated.

Nor, sadly, are the depression and stagflation that come with too many deaths. I

f other countries manage this better than the UK, if the UK's death rates sky-rocket due to poor decision-making it is likely that the UK economy will be affected badly, there will be fewer workers to cover the nation's needs and workers from other countries are less likely to want to step in.

OP on this subject the following might interest you and others: (comments online about the situation)

Sir, I agree with your leading article (May 12) that “teaching unions should not discourage educators from returning to work”. The National Education Union has described the proposal to reopen primary schools as “nothing short of reckless”. However, what is truly reckless is the union’s resistance to providing young children with some form of structured education. The health risks of returning to the classroom for children are minimal compared with the numerous risks they face if they are deprived of schooling and are confined to their home.

Children thrive in the stimulating school environment and gain valuable experiences engaging with their peers. The sooner we allow them to go to school, the sooner they will regain a sense of routine and normalcy, and hence flourish. No doubt schools face many challenges in the months ahead but surely educators will not be deterred from assuming responsibility for helping children to return to the classroom.
Frank Furedi
Emeritus professor of sociology, University of Kent

Sir, Although returning to school may present an increased risk of infection for teachers, union leaders must also consider the damage caused to pupils by continuing to ask them to stay at home. Calls to the NSPCC have vastly increased over the period that children have been off school.

It is clear that attempts to enforce social distancing are not going to work in primary schools: the government and teaching unions need to accept this. Head teachers have now had some time to consider what will work in their own schools and should be given the tools and confidence to make these changes happen. Getting all children back to school as soon as possible, and certainly before the start of the summer holidays, has to be the priority for all of us.
Caroline McCulloch
Guildford

Sir, The central problem of the proposed reopening of schools is not the teaching unions but the painful lack of clarity that has characterised government briefings on the subject. Conflicting imperatives abound, most notably over the requirement for social distancing alongside the acceptance that such is not possible when dealing with very young children. Trade unions have a duty to promote the interests of their members. This may not always be welcome but we should acknowledge the relevance of their voice at a time when their members could be placed in harm’s way by government directives.

If school governors are going to agree to reopen schools in any form after half-term they will require risk assessments specific to their school. In establishing our own approach we will be considering very carefully the views expressed by the teaching unions, as well as those of parents.
Richard Russell
Headmaster, Colfe’s School, London SE12

Sir, After my father had recovered from diseases far worse than Covid-19 in Japanese PoW camps in the Second World War he introduced the concept of two schools in each badly damaged school building in Malaya, thus doubling the pupil capacity. Surely our schools can halve the number of pupils in each class and stagger a longer day while taking all sensible precautions? A can-do approach by teaching unions rather than tribal political objections would help our young, whose futures will otherwise be gravely affected.
Sir David Lewis
Oxford

Britain, along with a select group of others, has failed at getting to grips with this virus. A significant minority of the public hasn’t helped, but they’ve been donkeys led by donkeys. There is little evidence our leaders will suddenly become more competent in the next three months than they’ve been over the last three - though I guess they could hardly do much worse. Stilll, this country has not got what it takes to deal with a second, probably stronger, wave - hence it must be avoided at all costs. Ireland certainly isn’t taking the chance and their rates are considerably lower than ours. Maybe take the hint,drop the uncertainty and just settle on September. Yes the economy, education etc. But you don’t fuck about with a pandemic that has the potential to leave a couple of million in need of intensive care. Take the hit and get it properly under control. Then, guardedly, you can reopen. A first, then B.

*schoolsweek.co.uk/ons-figures-reveal-65-covid-related-deaths-in-education/

Apologies if this has been posted already.

Children will have a worse education from dead teachers, eh?*

So we know that they are teachers or worked somewhere within the education sector. We don't however know whether they directly caught Covid19 from being on the actual premises at school or whether it is something they unfortunately picked up whilst doing their weekly shop etc like the vast majority of the tens of thousands of people who have caught/died from it.

RedToothBrush
Our teachers are on rota for when they are in the school

Are you on the rota yourself?

Also wasn't there something about laptops being provided to vulnerable or have I imagined that?

Only to pupils with social worker involvement.

All I read here is “I’m incapable of home schooling my child so I’m shouting at teachers!”

Yes!

Kids have a right to an education and teachers have a right not to risk death by going to work. Instead of demanding teachers just risk death, you should demand government action and funding to make it safe. Not pretending it’s safe with zero action or science. Actually safe like other workplaces.

I think that older teachers esp with health conditions should be supported more as they have a higher risk
Risk to children and younger teachers much less

There does not seem to be a focus on this issue

Students could support older staff whose experiences could be used to support them and be valuable in providing remote teaching for example

@firstmentat

Not implying in the least that you are an uneducated idiot; I get that the reasons people are unable to home educate are many and varied, and the main thrust of my point was to contradict someone who suggested that most people could easily educate up to O’level/GCSE, which I do not believe to be the case for either logistical or academic reasons.

But in my own case it stands that the families I was working with overwhelmingly had English as a first language and still lacked the skills needed to deliver the Year 1 curriculum, either because they had big gaps in their own education or because modern teaching methods were so alien to what they had themselves experienced. Many of these parents were indeed ill educated - but this in the main wasn’t their fault.

Well yeah I am incapable of educating my own children at the moment. I have to work full time. I’m a lawyer. I work 60-odd hour weeks at the moment and barely sleep. I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old.

Also, I can “teach” some basic P1 stuff to my 5 year old but I’m not a teacher. I have never trained to be one. I mean are you basically saying that anyone can be a teacher if they set their minds to it? Because if I was a teacher I’d find that pretty damn insulting if I’m honest.

You are the parent and therefore make an informed decision about your child's future which includes education.
No parent should be dictated to with regards to how education should look for their child and especially not feel trapped in this feeling that they put their child and family's health at unnecessary risk because "the government told them they have to"
Well before covid, parents were not being informed when children were attending sick bay. A first rider (not medically trained) could often be found sending children back to class when I'll and parents being handed notes about injuries at the end of the school day/on collection instead.
I read a few threads where children who had vomited were being sent back to class to infect the rest of their peers.
Other threads about children sitting in full view of peers after wetting themselves etc.
To trust the same adults to ensure children are kept safe from covid etc would be daft.
I agree education is a basic right, but it's not as urgent as health.
Home schooling, unschooling, travel round the world on a boat schooling is also educational.
There are lots of options parents can explore.

There is a reason why there hasn’t been an outbreak in schools and that is because so few are attending

Children and teachers and other workers at school can maintain social distancing. Ds goes a few times a week and sometimes there is only 4 of them from he thigh school

Of course children have a right to an education. Teachers and those who work in schools also have the right to feel safe at school. Returns shall have to be staggered

And do remember that key workers are far more likely to be carriers so that is likely their children are too

Name change as the law stands children have a legal right to an Education but not a legal right to school. I home educated my aspergers son and goodness knows how many times I had to quote this to those who wanted him in a specialised boarding school.You are the educator so just think of things to do .

All I read here is “I’m incapable of home schooling my child so I’m shouting at teachers!”

Of course my capabilities are limited ...

I’m not trained

I’m working full time at another job.

Meanwhile, someone else is getting full salary to fulfil this function. Yet I’m being told it’s my responsibility now. How does that work?

I mean are you basically saying that anyone can be a teacher if they set their minds to it?

The implications of this are very interesting.

Kids have a right to an education and teachers have a right not to risk death by going to work. Instead of demanding teachers just risk death, you should demand government action and funding to make it safe. Not pretending it’s safe with zero action or science. Actually safe like other workplaces

Yep.

The whole thread is a straw man argument full of more straw man arguments with people willfully ignoring the point that heads have responsibilities to BOTH staff AND children, that parents have a responsibility too in terms of their childrens education and the responsibility about providing an education isnt the same as having children in a school setting.

Access to education is more the issue whilst schools are closed and I think more could / should be done on this. But thats not the same as a right to go to school.

This is about parents seeing schools more as baby sitters and seeing them as a way to abdicate their own responsibilities where they possibly can.

You are the educator so just think of things to do

Fine. But why is so much state money being spent on teachers salaries then?

I think some people need to get a grip (or a life!) The UK population is an estimated 66.4 million (England is around 56million)- you can work out the percentage of 30K

Tiny. Except - and this is what so many seem to fail to grasp - best guesstimates suggest around only 5% of us have actually had the virus. Which means, in a back of a fag packet calculation, if 100% of us were to get the virus, over half a million would die. Lockdown at best was about getting over a hump, not about the virus disappearing altogether. This is a marathon and we have just completed the first mile.

What teachers want, as someone asked:

• an open discussion about transmission based on science. The virus is spread just by breathing. So if an asymptomatic child is sat in the corner of a class room, breathing in and out, the virus is moving around that room. Classrooms - at least in my experience - are fairly closed off places (windows barely open, for obvious reasons) and modern heating systems pump air around a room. The science I have seen states that being in a room for 50 minutes with someone breathing in an out is enough to give everyone else a high viral load dose. Simply put, anyone in a room with someone who has it is at high risk of contracting the virus and high risk of contracting it with a high viral load which means more likelihood of complications and death. This has implications for everyone who has a child in school but it particularly is an issue for school staff and children in school. If it is the case that children don't transmit ('rarely' simply isn't good enough, I'm afraid) then brilliant, we can get back to work. Otherwise, teachers are going to drop like flies. Let the scientists work that out for us, please. And please don't come at me with 'supermarket workers'. Supermarket workers have some PPE in place, there are social distancing rules in place, money isn't changing hands and if someone with the virus passes you in a supermarket, you are less likely to get the high dose because it will be a fleeting contact, not a sustained one. It is not the same as what is being faced by teaching staff in school.
• Information given by the Government to parents needs to curb expectation. All children will not be going into all schools, every day, for a very long time.
• Schools need budget to be able to make necessary changes to keep people safe - more sinks installed, for example, or santizier stations outside each classroom.
• Schools need budget for extra cleaning materials, hand sanitizers, soap, cleaners. Guidelines on deep cleaning need to be drawn up - when will it be necessary? We need expectations of teachers - will they have to clean the desks in their rooms between lessons. Again, science could help here - would it help? If it would help, even a little bit, then we need to do it and we need the budget for materials or people to be able to do it well.
• we need the absolute bollocks of 'teachers can sit in a room with 15 children from other households all day but they can't see their family members who live in another household' clarified. If it is unsafe to do one, it is unsafe to do the other.
• we need an open discussion on PPE and what measures teachers might be able to take in school to reduce their risk. Masks are the obvious one. If there is even a minimal improvement in transmission as a result of masks, then we need to provide these for school staff and have an expectation that parents provide masks for their children or the government needs to provide budget for children's masks also.
• We need to be able to take temperatures and follow guidelines to keep children with a raised temperature out of school. Personally I would like to see hefty £££ fines for parents who knowingly give their child a dose of calpol to get round the thermometer in the morning (the children will tell us!) and/or who knowingly send in their child with symptoms. I would go as far as criminal prosecutions and attempted murder, but that won't be popular.
• in high schools, we need to have students who deliberately lick others, cough on others (including teachers) removed from school until such a time as it is deemed genuinely safe. Schools should be under no obligation to provide education for these children once out of school. We should consider criminal charges for those who indulge in this kind of 'fun'. We wouldn't tolerate an adult coughing on a nurse or supermarket worker but I can guarantee, teachers will be expected to just suck it up.
• for senior schools, we need scientific clarification of where children end and adults start. Much has been made of non-levels of transmission amongst children. It is hard to image that a 6ft 14 year old with size 12 feet is a 'child' for viral transmission purposes but would love the science to tell me differently.
• we need budget for supply staff because that is going to become a big issue in the next year. If you want your child to have an education, you need to demand that a teacher is put in front of them at all times, not an unqualified 'supervisor' or TA (no disrespect to either, but there is so much potential for abuse of qualified professionals being made to work for peanuts as 'supervisors'. Even more so than we currently know).
• we want to see a promise of ££ given to families of teachers and school staff who die as a result of contracting covid in the workplace.
• we want to see clear evidence that both testing and track and trace are in place and are working. We need parents to understand that 14 days in quarantine means exactly that, not 4 days and 'I have to go back to work'.

There's probably more but that's my starter for 10. Essentially, what we are looking for is some evidence that we are not a science experiment because if it goes wrong, there will be a lot of teacher deaths but more importantly, it will mean a lot more deaths in the community. We need solid support to be at the heart of keeping 'R' down whilst doing the absolute best we can to educate children part-time in school and part-time at home.

Then take it to court and remove the child from their parent.

Red I am sure you would agree that this would not be a very practical or contructive course of action.

Or perhaps more sensibly target the children who have been struggling the most and / or find ways to improve online learning...

I think the impact will last for a long time and the solution will be to provide additional funds and resources over the next few years, to enable those who have dropped out to return to education and to ensure that children who have struggled have adequate support. It may be necessary for some children to stay in education for longer or to shorten future holidays.

Even if all children returned to school on 1st June they would still be deprived of what we would usually think of as an education.

Well yeah I am incapable of educating my own children at the moment. I have to work full time. I’m a lawyer. I work 60-odd hour weeks at the moment and barely sleep. I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old

You aren't incapable. You are a lawyer. You are capable of it.

60hrs a week is far more than normal. That IS a lifestyle choice at some point.

You are over stretched and have other priorities

Again different argument.