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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Our children have the right to an education.

999 replies

NameChange738676756 · 13/05/2020 05:41

So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

OP posts:
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Aesopfable · 13/05/2020 09:26

There seems to be a huge assumption here that parents are all equally capable. Not all households have, or can afford, laptops with internet access. Libraries are closed. Many adults struggle with the very basics in terms or reading, writing, and maths. Many adults see little benefit from education. Many homes have no surface on which to write or materials (pens, paper etc) to write with. Many adults can’t be bothered. Some adults are negligent. Some are abusive.

All children deserve an education including homes where the adults are incapable of providing it.

LondonJax · 13/05/2020 09:28

There are a few issues here

  1. Yes, children need to get back to school asap. However, all over the world, children miss school for various reasons every year. Hurricane Katrina meant children were moved out of their home area for their education. Part of that was political of course but that doesn't change the fact that these children missed a hell of a lot of their education then went to schools miles away from home and not always with their friends.
  2. Children in Christchurch were out of school for a while because schools were destroyed in the earthquake. Earthquakes happen in Japan which I'm sure must cause havoc to education. Their children aren't exactly 'uneducated'. Children can be pulled back.

However, some schools don't seem to have got their act together with regard to information from them to parents or work for the kids.

DS's school (he's year 8) have, this week, sent home a powerpoint/video and worksheet about the atomic bomb (they're studying WWII, last week it was the Battle of Britain). He had a day to do that as it was 'the work you would have done in the lesson' for Humanities. He's had a week long project set by his English head of department every week - this week it's analysing a Shakespeare text, watching a video clip, reading some sections of Shakespeare's life and seeing how that would have influenced his writing. In Maths he does Mathwatch every day and this week he has an 80 question Mathswatch type on line quiz to do by the end of the week - testing him for when they return. Science sends a project every Monday - this week it's 'light' and they've got a BBC video to watch, a multi choice questionnaire to do, an experiment to try at home using water in a glass, a recommendation for Bitesize and a piece to write about the video and experiment. His science teacher uses Educake for assessment testing at this time (it's free on a 30 day trial to schools and that's been extended to help with Covid shut down). Even PE has him videoing or photographing him doing javelin, shot put (with a tennis ball) to check his stance and timing himself running a distance that he marked (so time yourself for 1 minute, mark where you got to and try to beat it, then try to pace yourself to finish on the same mark each time) Geography has looked at earthquakes this week - again video clips, worksheets and an assessment. His language teacher sets a translation piece, a written test and a practice of vocabulary every week - we scan or photograph it and send it in. The teachers are calling those kids they know generally struggle each week. We had an email from one of his teachers as he'd missed a couple of assignments - they were at the bottom of the page and he'd skipped them. We've got him back on track and she's had an email conversation with my DS which made him really happy as he now knows where he needs to be.

His school houses send out a fortnightly newsletter to all the children. It includes pieces of works the kids have done, what the teachers have been up to (the science teacher as well as doing all this is leading a 'sew scrubs bags), they've set up a 'cookery club' - the kids send in photos of any food they've made and the houses publish as many as they can. They've set up a film club 'write a review of any film you've watched' and that's published. They've set up a photography club ....you've guessed it. And there's an Art Club set up in the same way. They're setting up a Sports Club (!) send in a photo of you exercising - whether it's running around the garden or throwing a frisbee. There's also a bit on every session about keeping safe on line and on keeping your mental health going - go for a walk, watch a favourite programme, read a favourite book, have a nap every day, do something that makes you happy at some point every day. They also send certificates for hard work - that could be as simple as someone who struggles getting a piece of work in on time (that's an achievement for them). The school sent out 500 on line certificates last week...

The head teacher does an email to parents every week letting us know what's happening and pointing out on line resources for kids, family films they've found on Netflix or Amazon, TV programmes that the family might enjoy - all sorts of things.

So it shows these things can be done. We're very 'techy' as a school and every child has a Chromebook (which our brilliant IT team have been handling remotely so everyone has access). Which is not always the case in many schools. We have 2000 students in our school - 1400 are on line, working, every week now. The others are our sixth formers and, of course, unfortunately some of the others just aren't engaging - they're the ones the teachers call every week. They're gradually getting those children on line as much as possible.

Sorry for the length of this but I just wanted to point out that some teachers are working their socks off to try to keep the normality going - even down to running 'school clubs' of a sort. Because on top of this, these teachers are home educating their own kids and some are in running the HUB for key workers.

So some teachers @Biscuit0110 have not had 7 weeks off...

Ibelieveinyesterday · 13/05/2020 09:28

Anyway, better off feeling suicidal alone with no support than feeling suicidal with people actively giving me a verbal kicking.

Strangers on the internet are not responsible for your mental health. If you are suicidal, seek professional help from the many mental health resources available.
Can't see how it helps to throw that statement out to try and guilt others.

Teateaandmoretea · 13/05/2020 09:28

Anyone who talks about 'rights' whilst absolving themselves of their own personal responsibilities gets my down vote.

What like the unions?

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 13/05/2020 09:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OllyBJolly · 13/05/2020 09:29

Up to O level standard (or whatever the equivalent is these days!) should be manageable by parents. It's the parents who largely influence a child's appetite and ability to learn.

For me, the huge sadness is in the social interaction. I feel so sorry for all the kids that can't get out to play in the sunshine, run around the park with random other kids making instant friends and especially the teenagers who are stuck at home with grumpy parents. (What a horrible adolescence). And it might only be 8 or 9 weeks but that's a lifetime when you are young.

iamruth · 13/05/2020 09:30

@MarieQueenofScots no I can’t see the difference, my children’s school is close by a hospital and has a very large number of children who have parents in other key roles. They have had 50-70 children in daily and most parents trying to swap shifts etc. These children aren’t guinea pigs anymore than your previous children but we have to suck it up while everyone else’s children are apparently far more precious

NameChange738676756 · 13/05/2020 09:30

@wonderrotunda thanks for the guardian link... that’s the sort of solution I’d love to see. Teachers safe, children getting an education. Lots of big boxes ticked.

OP posts:
ToriaPumpkin · 13/05/2020 09:33

That wasn't my point @aesopfable, my point was that with no known underly conditions he wasn't technically at risk then, from a normal childhood illness, as he is not, technically, now from one we know very little about. And I can't be the only one with that concern.

CayrolBaaaskin · 13/05/2020 09:33

Agreed op. The main opposition to schools going back seems to be teachers.

LaurieMarlow · 13/05/2020 09:34

So some teachers @Biscuit0110 have not had 7 weeks off...

Everyone gets that I think. The problem is...

The quality is hugely variable.

In the state sector, it seems to be entirely Luck of the draw what you get. The private sector is delivering better, surprise surprise.

If you’ve drawn the short straw, there really is no comeback. It comes down to the policy of the individual school. If they aren’t delivering, fuck all parents can do.

That’s why there’s so much frustration.

andannabegins · 13/05/2020 09:35

Let's rush kids back to school but what about those kids who have lost parents or family members and are grieving but can't be touched and held by their friends or teachers. What about the staff who have lost someone and are scared and haven't got the right PPE and can't do their jobs to the best of their ability. It really isn't a simple process. It's hard on the kids but they are alive and safe (for the most part) at home. They will survive and recover from this and the best thing is that they are not going through it alone, when they get back to school every child will have known how it felt. We are living in an in precedented time and we need to wait it out

fandajji · 13/05/2020 09:36

Up to O level standard (or whatever the equivalent is these days!) should be manageable by parents.

I'm a teacher and have had to get a maths tutor for my son. And I've enlisted another teacher to teach my primary aged child his maths. Absolutely ridiculous to claim that a subject I have spent 5 years (BA+MA) learning about and a year training to teach can be taught by a parent! Pedagogy is important. I can provide resources but I personally consider my presence and input invaluable to their education!

Aesopfable · 13/05/2020 09:38

Up to O level standard (or whatever the equivalent is these days!) should be manageable by parents

Don’t be ridiculous; some parents can barely read. Their children have a right to an education too.

LondonJax · 13/05/2020 09:39

And OP, you can get your DS to try things like Carol Volderman's Maths Factor www.themathsfactor.com/ - you normally pay but she's stopped the fees for the duration.

The Oaks Academy is run by teachers and has classes for those from reception to year 10 www.thenational.academy/

We also find documentaries on Iplayer - space is a favourite. And we do Iplayer programmes like Only Connect, Mastermind to keep DS's brain working hard - he loves those at the best of times! We'll watch QI (he's 13 so the language isn't a real problem). We also have a family quiz on line with the rest of the family each week - everyone dials in and we do quizzes there.

Learning isn't just about school - reading the paper, watching the news, listening to podcasts, painting or crafting with a theme. It's all learning. My cousin's daughter (same age as DS) is cooking a family meal every Saturday! I wish DS would do the same - he just eats! Life skills are important too.

DippyAvocado · 13/05/2020 09:40

I'm amazed at how many teachers (supposedly professional and intelligent people) can ignore the science and stats about Covid and children.

I posted not far above the most recent research from Johns Hopkins University which found that asymptomatic suffers may be responsible for between 25 and 50% of new transmissions and transmission by children and within families is likely to be responsible high levels of community transmission.

It's not just children in schools. There are many adults who work there. The children could go home to their families without symptoms and spread the infection at home.

Namenic · 13/05/2020 09:42

For the people who say risk to under 70s is low:

  1. when applied to large numbers of families there will the ‘small’ number of people (could be in hundreds) who die, who would not have if we waited for the number of infections to drop.

  2. Furthermore it makes things harder for those who are shielding - even if they are not in households with children. Rampant infection in the community makes it more likely for shielded people to get it when they do inevitably come into contact with outside world (eg if they need to go to hospital for chronic condition - as they are more likely to do than average, or receive assistance from a family member with children).

An alternative may be to provide centralized quality daily recorded programs or sessions for kids to watch (eg daily bbc program). Centralized work sheets with teachers having access to answers. And teachers perhaps having question and answer sessions?

Perhaps zoom social check in calls with 2 teachers and 15 students?

Govt program to loan laptops and mobile dongles to disadvantaged households? Won’t solve all problems but may avoid more deaths.

CayrolBaaaskin · 13/05/2020 09:42

Dd is only getting a worksheet- no online classes etc. This seems to be the same in all the schools in the area. I struggle to see what teachers are doing or why they should still be paid their full salaries. It certainly wouldn’t happen in the private sector.

MarieQueenofScots · 13/05/2020 09:43

They have had 50-70 children in daily and most parents trying to swap shifts etc

You can’t see the difference between 50-70 children and a full school.....Hmm

LaurieMarlow · 13/05/2020 09:44

Dd is only getting a worksheet- no online classes etc. This seems to be the same in all the schools in the area. I struggle to see what teachers are doing or why they should still be paid their full salaries. It certainly wouldn’t happen in the private sector.

Same situation here and I totally agree

Cantata · 13/05/2020 09:45

@Straycatstrut I have RTFT and your post stood out to me. There's nothing at all I can do to help you, but please just know that a stranger on the internet is thinking about you and hoping so much that things improve for you.

I am also at the end of my tether with it all, and want - more than anything - my children to go back to school and university.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/05/2020 09:45

Sorry, as an ex teacher I am sat here a tad agog!

because it seems TAs will be leading some classes, who are not trained as teachers. When we teachers screamed this, went on strike because of such stuff, where were you?

I know, moaning that we were striking for better pay... we told you that was the only legal right to strike we had, so we were using it but what we wanted you to know was that your kids were having their education diluted. But few listened, threads here were vitriolic!

Home Ed has long been touted as something many posters would like to do, cos they'd be really good at it.... Lets Do A Delia, shall we, Let's Be 'Aving You! Where are you?

Most teachers I know are working, have worked all the way through their non paid holidays so far and expect to do so through summer too. They are working to give almost total wrap around care for the children who do go in, not teaching, crowd control. They cannot teach as they don't know who will be in, have very mixed groups and cannot teach everything to every child. DSis pulls 12 - 14 hour shifts, picking up and droping off a couple of kidsp from another school as she goes. She is not the only one who goes out of her way to offer additional help!

"Take time of in lieu" some posters say WHEN??? When would you accept was a good time for any teacher to do that? Which bit of the next term or so?

AND she is running her school as a HUB, dealing with parents form 3 other schools, she isn't even the HT, he is drowning in another work load altogether!

Add to that the fact that teachers are also just as human and fallible as anyone else. They too are scared, tired and not necessarily straight thinking when it comes to a disease that could kill them! Like nurses and all other key workers, they have had far more daily exposure than most here.

Whilst we have been pounding our keyboards in fury, in our own homes, they have been remaining calm and collected in front of equally scared pupils.

So sod off with your teacher bashing. Your not so veiled hints that they may be making themselves unpopular (no shit Sherlock) and maybe unemployable, unwanted, uneccesary!

Like so very many other jobs teachers are sitting ducks for such vile twattery. Having to bite their tongues, be pleasant to even the foulest and deranged of parental comments, take it for granted that Little Jimmy's failings are actually their own and they could do better for every child, etc etc.

Let me take the opportunity to tell you all to fuck off!

Something I wanted to do on an almost daily basis when I was teaching when I or a colleague was harangued by a student, a parent or SMT about something that really was not within our control but had, for some inexpsicable reason, been devolved to us!

Shit! If teachers really were as responsible for all things as you want us to be we'd rule the bloody universe! But no, we sit politely at our desks and smile at you, agree that we all need to do more...

I would agreee, but don't hink you'd like the things we would choose to do more of (like actually teach and make all kids responible for their own learning).

audreyand · 13/05/2020 09:47
Daffodil
HangryChip · 13/05/2020 09:49

Schools and homes have joint responsibilities for educating children. Surely you recognise that the structure, facilities, discipline and social dynamics are different in school to home.

Some 2/3s of UK households have 2 working parents, who are just as stressed as anyone still working or needing to work, including teachers, with their children's education to worry about. While there is an element of supervision and help parents can provide, it is no substitute for school. Some age groups really need the social setting and learn just by being at school independently.. then each child's individual requirements differ so some are more manageable than others (as are adults!). For the older children (and the cut off may differ depending on child) an entirely home based learning is possible even if not perfect.

I totally admire and respect my DCs' teachers but cant say the same for some teachers who post on MN

CuriousaboutSamphire · 13/05/2020 09:50

If that was for me @audreyand I have no idea if it is an insult or not!