Is this is normal 11 year old behaviour?!

[frostedviolets]

My 11 year old DS is driving me crackers with his rude, frankly arrogant attitude, particularly bare faced lying and I have no clue if this is normal or not??

For example, earlier today I corrected him for minor rudeness, he pulls a ‘smarmy/sarcastic’ face and I say why have you pulled that face?
DS: ‘I didn’t pull a face’
Said utterly convincingly as truth.

He will insist no matter what, even going so far as to apologize for upsetting me but not pulling a face because he didn’t.

This is a regular thing!
And it might sound minor but it’s driving me absolutely insane and really upsetting me actually.
He insists so convincingly when I know 100% it’s a lie.

For another common example, failure to say thank you, you pass him something which he takes in silence, say to him ‘say thank you’ and get ‘I did say thank you’ back when he absolutely didn’t and I know he didn’t because I was right next to him!!

Is this normal?
How on earth do I deal with this?!

My 12 year old has been like this for a while with the face pulling, back chatting and clever attitude. She gets pulled up for it but I also choose my battles. I do not tolerate lies though and she gets her phone taken away and grounded for lying so that's pretty much stopped to be honest.

My 9yo is doing this too. Denying everything and taking no responsibility for anything.
"I asked you not to put your feet up there." "I didnt know." Or "I forgot." Or "Did you?? I didnt hear you."

@Blahblahidontcare here's a bit more reassurance!

It's normal to pull faces and most of times people do not realize they are doing it. When I was younger my mother constantly moaned that I always looked upset, angry and that I had to smile even when I didn't want to. There was nothing wrong with me, I simply have a resting bitch face even when I'm relaxed.

Pick your battles, if he wasn't aware he was making a face he's probably not lying.

Hm. You dont want them turning into gaslighting adults though do you? Children will lie, teens even more, but in reality you have to try and keep the lies for the important things and the day to day fucking with you needs to be stamped on surely?

Otherwise they just keep going surely - thinking mums (women) are mugs and they can do what they want and you're too stupid or soft to know. And if they are doing it at school and then mums ringing up insisting they are innocent then that's even worse.

Trying to push the boundaries is one thing - succeeding is quite another!

I'd make no comment about face pulling and, if passing him something, I'd not let go until he said thank you. Not in a 'tug of war' way but it's an easy way to prompt them when they feel that slight resistance and you don't have to say a word

However that only works of he's merely forgetting his manners. It doesn't work if he's doing it deliberately

You asked for opinions.
Mine is that you're making issues out of things that don't have to be issues.

I can't understand caring what face they pulled, at all. They are allowed to express feelings I wish they didn't have. Actions count, not faces.

the thank you thing is probably easy enough to get him to agree with your POV (although again it wouldn't bother me in the first place, I get annoyed by people demanding thank yous if I'm honest). Often successful tactic is a humour.

"That's alright dear I love doing stuff for you, no need to say thanks, I am your doormat after all!" followed by a hard stare is about right. After a while you just do the hard stare.

Me to 11 years old DD:

"Your room is a mess, shall I come and help you tidy it?"
DD: "no"

DH the day later: "DD, your room is a mess, shall I help you tidy it?"
DD "yes"
Me "but I offered and you said no!"
DD "no you didn't"

Me in my head

I have two older teens though so I know it gets better

I find adopting my resting bitch face in response often does the trick.