To think that this is the time to become as self sufficient as possible?

[letsgetplanning]

Just as the title says really??
Anyone else aiming to get more sufficient?
Buying some land, living as eco friendly as possible?
Growing your own as much as you can??
Using local shops that are more eco friendly too??
I'm just starting on my journey and I'm so excited!! Land/house bought, just working on the garden and growing all the while being as eco friendly as I can and buying plastic free etc.
Anyone else doing this or wanting too? Any more hints, tips or ideas??

PhilCornwall1 that's because it is development land. In my area a building plot would be about similar price. Agricultural land is more like 10-15k per acre.

A few years ago I set myself the challenge of growing a cake entirely from our allotment.

We grew wheat, sugar beet, fruit (eggs came from a neighbouring plotholder). In the end I was able to make two swiss rolls plus a few loaves.

Wheat is surprisingly productive. The wheat for the above was a single bed 3m by 4m. The tricky bit was grinding the wheat.

I was left with a lot of respect for our forebears for whom the daily grind was a real thing.

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad yes actually that might happen.
We farm and I'm i the process of splitting up some land into sizeable plots.

We've lost our main business due to Covid so trying to think laterally.

Dig for victory during the war was pretty successful I believe.

Might ease Brexit problems too.

Excellent idea op good luck.

It’s a laudable idea but most people don’t have the time/space/skill. My dad used to grow strawberries and raspberries, more for a hobby really, but when they moved house (only about 1/2 a mile) the soil wasn’t the same and he couldn’t do it.

When I was little my mums aunt and uncle grew most of their own fruit and veg; they lived in a terrace but it came with a massive allotment, as did every house in their road. I remember the bath being full of peas to be shelled and my great aunt baking all her own bread/cakes/pies and cooking in one of those ovens at the side of her coal fire.

I live in a new build so there are doubtless restrictions on what I can/can’t do in the garden. I imagine keeping livestock isn’t allowed.

A newspaper did a ‘where are they now’ article a good few years ago about ‘The Good Life’. Some experts said to realistically do what they did you’d need a plot about three times the size of their garden and while it is possible to turn animal waste into electricity it’s not as easy as they made it out to be.

It’s no bad thing to try but our local shop is either Lidl or a very small convenience store that has very limited stock as it’s tiny. We do get milk delivered but even that’s in plastic bottles!

Whatever the crusties tell you, dismantling the "capitalist patriarchy" isn't going to happen, however much they bang on about it over their vegan brownies and soy latte.

I also hate the sneering attitude that unless you're planning to radically overhaul everything, never fly again, grow 100% of your food, go vegan, whatever that there's no point doing anything.

100 people making small changes is just as impactful as 1 person making radical changes.

We've drastically reduced the amount of single-use plastic we use, and for years have embraced the make do and mend - repairing and upcycling rather than buying new. Don't buy fast fashion and lots of things are secondhand.

True self-sufficiency is a pipe-dream for pretty much everyone unless you want to significantly reduce change your expectations and your standard of living. However there's nothing wrong with growing as much fruit, veg as you can etc.

It is a bit of a middle-class fantasy, given that you generally need space and money to make a success of it. 'Buy some land' - well that's simply not an option for most people! However most of us could probably do with re-assessing how we live and seeing where we could make eco-friendlier choices.

Dh and I are hopefully moving next year. We do intend to buy somewhere that will allow us to grow fruit and veg, keep chickens etc. We make our own bread etc. But we are a) lucky enough to have the money to be able to do this and b) under no illusions that this is anywhere near 'self-sufficiency'!

Le hameau de la reine indeed

We have an allotment and are nowhere near self sufficient as we just don't have the space needed for this to happen.

It's nice being able to grow your own, and the kids love harvesting with us but, along with the space issue, I don't have the time to grow enough veg to be self-sufficient. I wouldn't have time to do my day job as I'd have to be outside weeding etc all of the time!

If we won the lottery I'd have a good go at it!

@GnomeDePlume That's all there is around here for miles and I don't fancy being totally self sufficient and driving a rotavator up the road like Tom and Barbara

Yes I definitely intend on getting somewhere between 6-10 chickens. I have just over an acre and a half and part of it is perfect for some apple/pear trees. The wheat idea sounds VERY interesting(and challenging)...I'll have to give it a go!! There is a dairy farm a few miles away so I have toyed with the idea of buying milk direct from them?? Don't know if they would be up for that though. I'll have to wait and see.

People don't have to scoff. We have a really small allotment. We have Plums, apples, black currants, strawberries, beans, curly kale, spring onions, rhubarb, beetroot, and Jerusalem artichokes. Even though the plot is small and we grow many different things, we still normally grow enough potatoes to last 9 months of the year. Next year we'll have enough for the entire year.

Chilis are really easy to grow and cost approx. £8 a kilo, so that is very cost-effective to grow. We have a couple of plants in our living room.

I do wonder about something, though. When we go around the countryside here, I can't help noticing that most farms do not have a kitchen garden. That is weird. What is that about? You have a farm, but you still go to the shop to buy all the vegetables you eat? Why? In Germany, the Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries, and in Belgium, I don't think I have ever seen a farm without a kitchen garden.

@CayrolBaaaskin
I wasn't suggesting they had a better quality of life, just that this is how they lived, and I do think the lifestyle, or elements of it, has a lot going for it
My grandma lived until 98 and my grandad nearly 80, which isn't bad.
They both were very healthy and also very happy, though that may have been more to do with the cider in my grandad case 😊

@PhilCornwall1 I wasnt meaning you should do it just commenting on the difference in land prices. A piece of land with a sniff of development potential has a hefty price tag.

We are fortunate to have a fairly large allotment (about a quarter of an acre) but even so we would struggle to be truly self sufficient without a lot of compromise.

To an extent we cut our cloth according to our means. We grow flowers for cutting so dont buy them. We grow soft fruit so dont buy that and make our own jam. We manage our gluts and preserve as much as possible though I went a bit mad and still have about 70 jars of ketchup from last year!

We make our own cider. This year we took on another allotment plot and planted around 25 apple and pear trees. All supermarket £5 ones but they will grow given time.

The wheat was an experiment, a voyage of discovery. I wouldnt recommend it unless you have access to a mill!

For anyone interested and worried about space and time, I'd strongly recommend this little video.

This woman produced 400kg of food from her 100sqm city garden.

She says that maintenance is only a few hours each week.

Lovely for you that you are in the position to buy land, a house, pay for private healthcare and pay the higher price tags at local independent shops - and feel virtuous about it.

I presumed this was a troll post because your response to "but you're not self sufficient unless you don't use healthcare, building infrastructure, electricity etc etc" was i do pay for private healthcare and husband does DIY

How tone deaf is that

@darrenlacey I was being sarky because I found the previous comment uncalled for to be honest. And I am aware I am lucky, I never said that I wasn't.

Most land in the UK is already owned by Tories or their supporters - unlikely they would be willing to flog it all off to the proles so everyone can become more self sufficient (they rely on the rampant consumerism we are trapped in for their riches).

@letsgetplanning ignore all the nasty comments. People are bored and like to bring other people down it would seem.

Growing your own produce and shopping locally is fantastic and if more people did it, the world would be a better place.
Contrary to belief, you don't need a ton of money to do it either - its completely scalable.

I'm fascinated by "forest agriculture" or "food forests" as an alternative to sustainable living.
Traditional agriculture is really damaging to the environment and is a huge contributor to pollution.

I'm working my way through the (limited) selection of YT videos on the subject - I'd recommend a look if you're interested in that kind of thing.

Sorry, everyone. The notion of self-sufficiency peddled on this thread is not only totally deluded about what actual self-sufficiency is, but also dangerous.

It is deluded because having an allotment and paying for your healthcare is not self-sufficiency. Why did you have to buy a house when your DH is so good at DIY? Could he not build it himself? And why do you, for that matter, rely on your DH for DIY services? Can you not do it yourself? Growing a few veg is not self-sufficiency. It's a nice hobby.

And all this talk about everybody living off small farms, if brought into reality, will mean nothing but malnutrition and hunger for the majority of people. Small farms where everyone produces just for themselves are inefficient. There is no efficient utilisation of machinery and infrastructure, no specialisation, no sharing of skills that require specialised education. This mean more expensive food and a restricted food supply for the majority. So your fantasies about breaking up larger farms into small ones are fantasies of wide-scale social deprivation.

And paying for healthcare? Is this for real? Quality healthcare must be available for everyone for free. It's a human right. You don't pay for human rights.

Even just being a little less reliant on the shops is a good thing - I’ve got the smallest gardens down my whole street (thanks google maps) and when I say small I do mean small! Yet I’m the only person who bothers to grow any fruit and veg. A lot of the time it’s mindset for people, as I refuse to believe that everyone and their dog lives in a high rise flat with no ability to use a plant pot.

You keep going :)

@PissedOffProf there are MANY ppl who pay for health insurance to cover private care!!
There are many countries where its the norm...USA, Australia, Ireland to name but a few!

And also there are plenty of ppl who try to live as best they can off of their land...there's a village not far from me where they each grow different veg/fruits etc and swap them around. It's possible and I am just trying my best to be as self sufficient as I can! I didn't say it was easy, i didn't say I would never need outside help for some things.

And since you asked, the house was very small and yes my dh built an extension himself.

@GnomeDePlume I'm not making fun, to be honest I would give it a go. Since the virus issue started, we are getting veg boxes from a local supplier and love it, so much better we've found, so will carry on with that.

The problem around here is almost any parcel of land is seen as development potential, typical Cornwall. It's got to the stage people are even selling their side gardens if they can. It's madness.

There are allotments around here, in fact I didn't realise until recently there is one just down the road from us. It's got a 5 year waiting list, which is good from their point of view, but a bugger for people who want one.

We try to grow fruit and veg at home but lack the skills or knowledge to be able to do more. To justify the cost of agricultural land we would need to be able to actually use it, and to put the time in we would need to give up our (well paid) jobs, I don't see how we can possibly do it.

"Being a little less reliant" is not self-sufficiency. Growing veg is a nice skill to have. So is sewing, playing an instrument, painting and writing short stories. All these things can make life richer. They do not make you self-sufficient.

Saying that the thing to do in these difficult times when many are losing their incomes and risking abject poverty is to buy land and grow you own food is unbelievable blind smugness. Le hameau de la reine indeed.

The problem around here is almost any parcel of land is seen as development potential, typical Cornwall. It's got to the stage people are even selling their side gardens if they can. It's madness.

That's not just Cornwall, it's everywhere.

letsgetplanning, I am sure you are aware that there are millions of people in the United States who cannot afford health insurance. What do you have to say about that? Should they eat cake?

Grow your own veg if you want. But do not peddle privatised healthcare as a virtue. Privatised health care kills people.

Swapping fruit with your neighbour is hardly 'living off the land' though OP! You do sound a little naive.

I must admit I agree with PissedOffProf. Lots of good and valuable aspects to growing your own etc, but aspects of this thread are a bit tone deaf really.