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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is it good idea or should I just continue to bury it?

23 replies

SquarePeggyLeggy · 09/05/2020 11:10

Quick summary: my brother and I grew up with a single mother who died when we were in our early 20s. I consider him to be my entire extended family. We both have married and have three kids each, but in terms of the outer family, he’s it.

We lived in different countries for 8 years until I moved to their town in order to be closer and build a relationship and have cousins for the kids. At first this seemed to be happening, and we were all close. Our girls are only 6 months apart and get on like a house on fire. But for the past 3 years, we have been really drifting to the point I fee quite heartbroken about it.
Our financial situation has dramatically changed. I feel it might be related to that but I don’t know and it’s not something you can bring up.
My husband suddenly started earning more than 15 times his previous annual salary, he started a business that took off very quickly. We were able to buy a really nice house, having previous been renting a small flat from my in laws. It was at this time that I noticed my sister in law stopped coming when we invited them over.
In that time, they’ve had us to theirs once. In 3 years. To show us their renovations. My brother struggles with depression and so I try to stay in touch a lot and help out, I drop meals over when they’re not well or very stressed etc. SIL spends a lot more than they can afford and a few times my brother has asked me for loans or grocery money. He has a secret bank account for household spending that she doesn’t know about. That’s another issue (theirs obviously), but again the financial thing.
I have recently had to say: “Can I please come in for a cup of tea?”. They don’t offer. But they do have other people over. I invite them over and they usually come! And seem to enjoy themselves (don’t rush off etc). But they never ever ask us back.
They live 10 minutes away, and we don’t see them for months. They come to the playground a block from my house, they never call in or invite us to join them.
But my brother had a nervous breakdown last year and he called me. We gave them some money, no repayment expected. I took the kids so he could go to the Dr and stayed that night, and cleaned his house. We were talking on the phone. He got a lot better health wise. And then now again... back to nothing.
My sister in law and I had a baby a couple of months apart last year. She didn’t once ask to meet for the whole of the maternity leave.
I’m really feeling like I’m not good enough to be friends with, but am good for emergencies or a loan. I love my brother, he’s a good person. I want it to be better.
I haven’t said anything. But more and more I want to! But when you say it, you can’t put it back.
I want to say: “I feel like you don’t want a close relationship with me, is that correct?” Or “why don’t you invite me to visit?” Or “how can we make it better do you not like me/my kids/my husband?”
Or do I just continue to be sad about it? I’ll never cut them off, he’s my only family and I wish it was different.

OP posts:
Stompythedinosaur · 09/05/2020 11:15

Reading your post I wonder if your brother's depression might have more to do with him failing to stay in touch than not wanting to be close. I don't think you should necessarily expect your sil to be doing the work to stay in touch though. It sounds like you don't like her much.

Personally I would say that no good will come of bringing your feelings up. Keep inviting them round. Offer to have the cousins for the day. At least the dc can have the relationship you wanted for them. Give the adult relationships time.

bridgetreilly · 09/05/2020 11:16

I'd bet anything that the reason they don't invite you over is nothing to do with not wanting to be close to you.

It's (a) they're embarrassed about the size/location of their house compared to yours;
(b) your house is just easier and nicer for the kids to hang out in;
(c) your brother has depression and one of the symptoms is that it's hard to initiate social interaction (this is one of mine, and it's very common);
(d) there are some issues in their marriage (the secret account/overspending/loans suggest there are problems) and he likes coming to yours because it gives them a break from each other.

I don't think there's anything in what you've said that makes me think he doesn't care about you. I don't think this is about you. At all.

bridgetreilly · 09/05/2020 11:18

Oh, and I agree with pp. It sounds like you and SIL are never going to be best friends. That's a whole different thing, though. You can still be close to your brother without that, and I definitely wouldn't be pushing things with her. It sounds like neither of you want it, really.

KnobwithaK · 09/05/2020 11:24

IME depression and general unhappiness are very likely to cause a lack of contact. People just want to hide themselves away and avid having to face questions or perceived pressure to be happy.

Agree with others that you should just forget about being friends with your SIL. You don't have to be.

I'd keep in contact with you brother though, and one kick down is over maybe see if he wants to meet for coffee (away from either of your houses), maybe without SIL or children and see if he opens up a bit.

KnobwithaK · 09/05/2020 11:25

Lock down not kick down!

Windyatthebeach · 09/05/2020 11:29

My adult ds is similar to your db.. He has depression and stays away.. He has admitted - kind of - that needing his family makes him feel a failure - that he should be able to manage his life by himself.. He has had times of asking to borrow cash and ringing several times a day /visit every week. Then stays away for ages and won't answer my calls..
Not sure the answer though op. Haven't seen him since 31/12....
Stay available, keep inviting, as the dc get older invite them alone if necessary...

dontdisturbmenow · 09/05/2020 11:31

There are probably envious OP. His depression might have something to do with their financial situation. Coming to yours, seeing how nice you look, what your kids got that he can't afford for his etc... Might be a constant reminder of what he doesn't have and depress him even more.

PerditaProvokesEnmity · 09/05/2020 11:36

Our financial situation has dramatically changed. I feel it might be related to that but I don’t know and it’s not something you can bring up.

Of course it's that. Your SIL's overspending, your brother's depression - both must be hugely exacerbated by the sudden financial gulf between your households and the way it exposes them as comparative paupers.

Sorry - don't have an immediate solution!

SquarePeggyLeggy · 09/05/2020 13:23

Thank you for your responses.

If they were entirely hermits I’d find it easier to accept. But my sister law’s social media shows they do socialise reasonably often with others, sometimes in their house. Or at least she does, my brother is not always there. Not at the moment, obviously.
I know he’s depressed and that’s a large reason I’ve not said anything, I don’t wish to add pressure. But is it also right for me to feel kept at arms length like this by the only family I have? I would love to have some family support too!

Maybe he’s just not actually able to offer that.

A sudden change in wealth like we’ve experienced has been a double edged sword. Alienated us a little from friends and family while at the same time, we don’t know anyone in a similar situation and would feel very uncomfortable in those circles too. We just don’t buy much and save everything because it’s a foreign experience having both grown up quite poor. But I think the shame in needing family help is probably accurate! But we are happy to help him. It’s very very awkward to manage/talk about/act upon. It’s why I make meals: it’s not direct cash but helps them save money.
I can only see this getting worse and it makes me so sad.

OP posts:
Wearywithteens · 09/05/2020 13:37

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

KnobwithaK · 09/05/2020 14:23

I don't think it's necessarily a money issue.

Either way though, it looks like SIL is the one that instigates socialising and she doesn't see you as a "mate". I don't think you should take it personally, it may just be that she sees the relationship with you as something for your brother to manage (which it is, really). Fwiw I very rarely contact my SIL on my brother's side.. don't dislike her at all, just always speak to my brother instead 🤷

SquarePeggyLeggy · 09/05/2020 21:31

Can I ask for help from SIL? Explain it makes me so sad, and given she organises their social lives could we occasionally be invited? I agree it’s not her job, but if her husband is too depressed to do it, can she help us both?
Or is that out of line?

OP posts:
SquarePeggyLeggy · 09/05/2020 21:33

I do help my husband with his relationship with his family when it’s needed. He does manage the relationships himself obviously, but I do help smooth things over and organise practical stuff like making sure we visit them etc.

OP posts:
Cheesypea · 09/05/2020 21:41

I think just continue to be there and support you brother. Continue to ask them over and dont view her social media. Is your brother getting all the mental health support he needs, is that something you and your partner can contribute towards finiacially if needed?

Cheesypea · 09/05/2020 21:43

Also see your brother on your own just you and him and the kids if need be. Good luck op.

AnotherEmma · 09/05/2020 21:54

Could you meet up with your brother, without your husband and his wife?

I agree with the PP who said this isn't about you, clearly he is struggling with depression and it sounds like they have financial and relationship issues too. Still, even though it's not about you, it's understandable that you feel disappointed and hurt not to see him more.

I think you need to take everything else out of the equation, the partners, the (presumably very different) houses and lifestyles, and just focus on the key thing which is the relationship between the two of you. I think neutral ground would be the easiest way to do this, going for a walk together or a drink or something. I would make an effort to do this even if he didn't seem super keen; as PPs have said the depression might make it hard for him to motivate himself, but if you can persuade him to see you he might get something out of it and be more up for it in future. If I were you I wouldn't start by asking what's wrong, why they don't want to see you, etc - just chat to him, ask him how he's doing, ask about his life, be supportive. Perhaps if he is able to open up to you, you could progress to telling him that you would like to see him more, and for the families to meet up - but if you push this too soon it might be too much pressure.

Personally I would want to support him as much through his depression and hope that he recognises and appreciates my support, if not immediately then eventually, which would allow the relationship to continue and improve as his mental health hopefully improves.

However, if he's not receptive at all, you may just have to accept it and cut your losses - it will feel more and more hurtful to put effort in if you get absolutely nothing back.

Stompythedinosaur · 10/05/2020 00:42

Can I ask for help from SIL? Explain it makes me so sad, and given she organises their social lives could we occasionally be invited?

Actually, no, I don't think you should. Even if you did, a painful duty invite is not really what you are looking for, and once you've have that conversation you'll never know if an invite is genuine again.

You sil is presumably coping with her own dc and your db's depression. That can't be easy. I hear that you want support, but I don't think she's the person to ask for it from.

I think you'd be better building a support network from friends tbh, while maintaining a relationship with your db.

SquarePeggyLeggy · 10/05/2020 01:43

Yes you’re right. 😢

He actually just called me for a chat. It was really nice!

OP posts:
Drombeg · 10/05/2020 05:08

I think you’re putting too much pressure on him to be close , as your only family member. I’m fond of my sister, but we’ve lived in different countries for years, and I’d be very taken aback and feel pressured into a closer relationship than I was immediately comfortable with if she suddenly moved to my country, let alone my actual town, with the express intention to ‘build a relationship and have cousins for the kids’.

You’re clearly fundamentally close, you can call on one another in emergencies, but to me that’s an entirely different thing to ‘being friends’.

billy1966 · 10/05/2020 06:56

OP,
I wouldn't say anything to either of them.

You can't force people to have a relationship they don't want.

He calls you when he can or needs to.

Focus on your own life and making friends.

Get some counselling support to help you with this issue.

You sound like a lovely woman and a good sister, but you will unfortunately have to learn to accept that this is the relationship he wants.

Depression is a tough one and he has family stress too.

Don't get into with SIL, it won't end well.

Step back and focus on yourself and your family.
Flowers

SquarePeggyLeggy · 10/05/2020 12:52

Yes, you are right. It’s just a shame for me because there’s nobody else! But you’re right.

OP posts:
Malysh · 10/05/2020 13:04

It's also the case that sometimes there is a dynamic where only one person calls. For instance, I'm always the one who calls my brother. If I don't he might but much less frequently (doesn't mean he's not happy to talk to me when I call though).

It's not just him but the whole family. A couple of years ago I had a fallout with my mother and stopped calling, said if she wants a relationship she can bloody well work at it, phones work both ways. The end result is that we barely talk. I'm fine with that, if she can't be bothered then neither can I.

So I agree it'll do no good bringing up invites or lack thereof. Just keep calling and I think it's a good idea to meet on neutral ground (go for coffee or for a beer, just the two of you) and see if that helps you reconnect. And obviously only do this as long as it works for you and you're happy to do it.

Rose789 · 10/05/2020 13:35

My brother and SIL come to my house all the time, I’ve been to their house twice in 3 years. Once to help build some furniture and the second time I popped in to see the living room they had just done out. Other than that I pick up or drop off the kids at the door. SIL has friends over occasionally but she scrubs the house for hours before they get there. I think she would be embarrassed if someone was to pop in and see the mess of 3 children in daily lives.
It sounds as though you are close, and the fact that your brother feels able to ask you for help is a massive thing.

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